No distance??
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I’ve heard from a colleague that Ben Thomas of Oregon is interested in taking on the head position.
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andre hillsman...we need your input...help us all !!
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I am not familiar with the U of T situation, but it seems the world has changed when it comes to coaching (obviously). In the early 80s, I perceived my coach's job security to be based upon 1) academic success, 2) athletic success and 3) athlete's personal development, in that order. Accordingly, those were the priorities given out to the team. I went to school before Prop 48 (1986), so many more lightly prepared athletes matriculated. My coach tried everything to get these athletes ready, and the athletic department rewarded him for it. Minor sports served to pump up academic averages.
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For the delusional UT men alums who are still hanging around Knoxville trying to run every coach out of Tennessee since BW left and the programs were combined, check out your history at the NCAA meet for the past 35yrs. Tennessee was never a powerhouse or dominating force in NCAA track field besides winning an occasional championship. Stop leaving in the Chuck Rohe era. Step away, enjoy the sport and let the next HC continue to develop the program with the available resources. Remember you can't make chicken salad out of chicken poop. The current staff has done a great job with what they have and are up against.
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Observa wrote:
For the delusional UT men alums who are still hanging around Knoxville trying to run every coach out of Tennessee since BW left and the programs were combined, check out your history at the NCAA meet for the past 35yrs. Tennessee was never a powerhouse or dominating force in NCAA track field besides winning an occasional championship. Stop leaving in the Chuck Rohe era. Step away, enjoy the sport and let the next HC continue to develop the program with the available resources. Remember you can't make chicken salad out of chicken poop. The current staff has done a great job with what they have and are up against.
Observa, How many times can you possibly mistake “living” for “leaving” ?? Your intelligence is showing
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Observa, let's put things in perspective...
UT's men's program is NOT Arkansas or Oregon or USC. BUT, they are only 1 of 14 programs in D1 to have won multiple national titles and 1 of only 11 to have won more than 2 national titles. They have also won 1 in XC, with 5 podiums.
Powerhouse... probably not. Dominating force... maybe here and there.
But to the point of the debate on Beth, the men have never made the NCAA XC championships under her, and their best performance in the SEC XC meet was 4th in 2018 and 2020. On the track their best SEC performance was 5th indoor in 2020 and 6th outdoor in 2018. While the men's program may have never been a powerhouse in your eyes, they were always top 2 behind ARK in XC and track in the SEC (they actually won 3 outdoor SEC titles under Webb).
We can leave the Chuck Rohe era out...
Stan Huntsman's XC teams made NCAAs 14 of 15 years with 1 NCAA title and 6 top 10s, and 11 SEC titles in 15 years
Doug Brown's XC teams made NCAAs 8 of his 10 years with 2 podiums and never were lower than 2nd at SECs
After Brown left, distance was de-emphasized by Bill Webb, so a natural decline in performance...but men's track won 2 NCAA titles under Webb.
George Watts' XC teams made NCAAs 5 of his 12 years with a highest finish of 12th and lowest SEC finish of 6th
BAS has never made NCAAs in her 7 years, had a high of 4th place and a low of 11th place at SECs.
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OnBrandVol wrote:
Observa, let's put things in perspective...
UT's men's program is NOT Arkansas or Oregon or USC. BUT, they are only 1 of 14 programs in D1 to have won multiple national titles and 1 of only 11 to have won more than 2 national titles. They have also won 1 in XC, with 5 podiums.
Powerhouse... probably not. Dominating force... maybe here and there.
But to the point of the debate on Beth, the men have never made the NCAA XC championships under her, and their best performance in the SEC XC meet was 4th in 2018 and 2020. On the track their best SEC performance was 5th indoor in 2020 and 6th outdoor in 2018. While the men's program may have never been a powerhouse in your eyes, they were always top 2 behind ARK in XC and track in the SEC (they actually won 3 outdoor SEC titles under Webb).
We can leave the Chuck Rohe era out...
Stan Huntsman's XC teams made NCAAs 14 of 15 years with 1 NCAA title and 6 top 10s, and 11 SEC titles in 15 years
Doug Brown's XC teams made NCAAs 8 of his 10 years with 2 podiums and never were lower than 2nd at SECs
After Brown left, distance was de-emphasized by Bill Webb, so a natural decline in performance...but men's track won 2 NCAA titles under Webb.
George Watts' XC teams made NCAAs 5 of his 12 years with a highest finish of 12th and lowest SEC finish of 6th
BAS has never made NCAAs in her 7 years, had a high of 4th place and a low of 11th place at SECs.
I get your point, but what does that have to do with Tennessee Track & Field and Cross Country right now? Winning a conference and/or NCAA title 40, 30 or twenty years ago is totally irrelevant to today. Many kids and coaches and certainly the AD don't know Stan Huntsman, Doug Brown, Bill Webb or JJ Clark. Just because a program was great generations ago, means absolutely nothing today and vice versa, terrible programs today can become great in the near future with the right staff, support and student-athletes.
Time to move this conversation on to the dozens of coaches who would be a good fit and deal with the AD.
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I was on the Tennessee track/ field team, and Beth was emotionally abusive and manipulative. She caused many injuries to me and many other runners who had no previous injury history and blamed us for them- not on her lack of proper training. She did not believe in distance runners lifting and wanted girls to be as small as possible. I witnessed many girls develop disordered eating patterns because of this. Coach Sullivan also definitely had favorites and did not hide it.
Coming back from an injury I went from not running at all to full mileage in a month which lead to another injury needing surgery. This was common here for distance runners to get injured, recover, and be forced to come back too soon only to become injured again.
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"on to the dozens of coaches who would be a good fit" ??
The AD should talk with Ben Thomas or Ryan Vanhoy.
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wormie wrote:
I was on the Tennessee track/ field team, and Beth was emotionally abusive and manipulative. She caused many injuries to me and many other runners who had no previous injury history and blamed us for them- not on her lack of proper training. She did not believe in distance runners lifting and wanted girls to be as small as possible. I witnessed many girls develop disordered eating patterns because of this. Coach Sullivan also definitely had favorites and did not hide it.
Coming back from an injury I went from not running at all to full mileage in a month which lead to another injury needing surgery. This was common here for distance runners to get injured, recover, and be forced to come back too soon only to become injured again.
What was your full mileage? A month is plenty of time if you take care of your body. Collegiate running isn’t for everybody
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44561... try to keep up. This conversation is about BAS. One needs to compare her performance to those of her predecessors to see how she stacks up. AND, my response was to the statement that UT has never been a powerhouse program. You are right, we don't want to live in the past...we want a coach who's worth a S&*^%!
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It is possible to get elite talent to UT. Beth is an average recruiter at best. Tennessee has a number of advantages in recruiting but has never fully used them with BAS. They have also had quite a bit of talent seemingly wasted by lack of development or exit the program in the last 5-8 years.
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RalMurph92 wrote:
Rita Garry of Furman next
One can only hope. A recent post from a former athlete on social media gave a personal account into some alarming stuff…although Rita’s been accused of psychological abuse before with an investigation that the school’s athletic department gave a nice “slap of the wrist” to and pushed it under the rug to save face. It wouldn’t be the first time powerful coaches stick around and athletes are ruined by coaches like her.
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Hi @ Exposure,
Just curious your weekly mileage? And if you were A D1 SEC scholarship athlete? If so, you should understand that female collegiate runners average 50-70 miles a week. So NO, going from 0 to 70 miles in 4 weeks after an injury that requires surgery is NOT okay. Even casual joggers know the "10%" rule. Hop off unless you want to embarass yourself more on this thread
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Eitewillcome wrote:
It is possible to get elite talent to UT. Beth is an average recruiter at best. Tennessee has a number of advantages in recruiting but has never fully used them with BAS. They have also had quite a bit of talent seemingly wasted by lack of development or exit the program in the last 5-8 years.
I very much agree with the last sentence. However, she was head coach and therefore not too involved with recruiting aside from offering scholarships and woo-ing hot shot athletes
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runman3 wrote:
Hi @ Exposure,
Just curious your weekly mileage? And if you were A D1 SEC scholarship athlete? If so, you should understand that female collegiate runners average 50-70 miles a week. So NO, going from 0 to 70 miles in 4 weeks after an injury that requires surgery is NOT okay. Even casual joggers know the "10%" rule. Hop off unless you want to embarass yourself more on this thread
Close. Former All-ACC runner here. I ran 85 to 90 miles per week. I would usually reach peak mileage after 5 weeks from taking time off. And I’m well aware of the 10% rule…
At the end of the day, your scholarship is for you to run, not get upset when your mileage increase is 3 miles too far each week. The fact is simple - every program has athletes who are injured and have to face the harsh reality that collegiate athletics are not made for everybody, despite how good you think you may be.
Without knowing Coach Alford Sullivan, I would bet that you didn’t reach peak mileage one month after surgery. My former college teammate is an athletic trainer and every university has a protocol in place that wouldn’t allow that to happen. You don’t need to exaggerate your stories to get your point across. You didn’t like Coach Sullivan and blame your injuries and lack of results on her. At the end of the day, every single program has athletes that encounter this “let down” in their running career. Should every Coach be ridiculed on Letsrun? At some point this just becomes ridiculous
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How many of these sockpuppets is Beth. That woman has no support within the UT program or at any of the other programs she washed out at.
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do you think sydney will transfer to arkansas???
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Exposure wrote:
runman3 wrote:
Hi @ Exposure,
Just curious your weekly mileage? And if you were A D1 SEC scholarship athlete? If so, you should understand that female collegiate runners average 50-70 miles a week. So NO, going from 0 to 70 miles in 4 weeks after an injury that requires surgery is NOT okay. Even casual joggers know the "10%" rule. Hop off unless you want to embarass yourself more on this thread
Close. Former All-ACC runner here. I ran 85 to 90 miles per week. I would usually reach peak mileage after 5 weeks from taking time off. And I’m well aware of the 10% rule…
At the end of the day, your scholarship is for you to run, not get upset when your mileage increase is 3 miles too far each week. The fact is simple - every program has athletes who are injured and have to face the harsh reality that collegiate athletics are not made for everybody, despite how good you think you may be.
Without knowing Coach Alford Sullivan, I would bet that you didn’t reach peak mileage one month after surgery. My former college teammate is an athletic trainer and every university has a protocol in place that wouldn’t allow that to happen. You don’t need to exaggerate your stories to get your point across. You didn’t like Coach Sullivan and blame your injuries and lack of results on her. At the end of the day, every single program has athletes that encounter this “let down” in their running career. Should every Coach be ridiculed on Letsrun? At some point this just becomes ridiculous
You’re being disingenuous by saying you reached peak mileage 5 weeks after time off. That’s commonplace for training when you take time off after a season and begin building up again. Which it seems like that’s what you meant. Clearly you know that was not the original persons situation. They clearly stated they had surgery so one would assume they have been out of running for a while. Every school has protocols but that doesn’t mean coaches adhere to them. That’s like saying college coaches didn’t pay football recruits before because it was illegal. Beth does not care about her athletes.
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