She doesn't even have the guts to allow comments on her IG post. GTFOH doper!
I'm happy to see that most are treating her exactly as she should be treated, which is just like any other adjudicated doper would be with no favoritism because she's a white, American.
Why do you assume everyone should give you the right to post crap on their page? Maybe the one with the problem is you.
There is no “presumed” guilty. As soon as the test results were confirmed, she was banned and it was as a done deal. Houlihan went for an appeal at CAS, but the test results and the specified ban was never challenged.
She was suspended pending the hearing, thus not banned.
As there was no ban there was no specified ban to challenge at CAS.
CAS set the ban after hearing the evidence, and the CAS ban was challenged.
And the test results were challenged.
So everything you say is wrong.
The hearing was at CAS and all they did was to uphold the ban. If she had not gone to CAS the result would have been the same. I don’t know how they could contest the results.
She was suspended pending the hearing, thus not banned.
As there was no ban there was no specified ban to challenge at CAS.
CAS set the ban after hearing the evidence, and the CAS ban was challenged.
And the test results were challenged.
So everything you say is wrong.
The hearing was at CAS and all they did was to uphold the ban. If she had not gone to CAS the result would have been the same. I don’t know how they could contest the results.
The hearing was at CAS and all they did was to uphold the ban. If she had not gone to CAS the result would have been the same. I don’t know how they could contest the results.
Could or did?
Did. And could in this case of flagrantly obvious doping. Silly question.
The hearing was at CAS and all they did was to uphold the ban. If she had not gone to CAS the result would have been the same. I don’t know how they could contest the results.
Could or did?
Maybe you’ve read more than I have on the Houlihan case. Did Houlihan’s team have a 3rd party test the samples? Seems like a waste of time if they did.
Most crimes require proof of intent. Typically, only minor offences (traffic) don't.
Many do not. DUI does not, for example. Involuntary manslaughter does not….the list is long. It’s all about how you write the law. Also, you are missing my point. you do not know intent until you investigate. If an agency like the FBI investigates, it’s a felony simply to lie! This will be motivation enough for many to tell the truth. Those interviewed do not know what the investigators know. Always better to tell the truth.
My attorney's advice is that it is usually best to say nothing, especially to a federal agent.
BTW I am revolted by Shelby. What a disgrace she is to the sport.
She could have been anything. She could have done anything. This isn't some story like Faith Kipyegon, who won the Olympics and then her village got electricity for the first time. She was a privileged white American kid who could have gone to college, gotten a job, an apartment, a 401K and run as a hobby on the side. She chose to be a pro runner. she should have respected and honored the sport and her choice. If she couldn't make it clean, then don't make it at all. fall back on something else like dozens of other American runners end up doing. Leave, at least with your integrity.
But she was greedy. 49 seconds off of her 5K PR by 2017, and take an additional 24 seconds between 2017-2018 for that American record. She even shocked her coaches with her progress. Shalane had to scramble to get more and more fitness. Then take an additional 11 seconds off of that time for a 14:23. She blew Jenny Simpson, the world silver medalist, out of the water for the US Title in the 1500 in 2018. Got an American record 3:54.99 out of that too in 2019. She went from a formidable US competitor to unbeatable. In her fourth year as a pro she became a dominant runner for the first time in her life. Even in high school, and college, she was always good but never dominant. But her hairline receded, her facial structure expanded and she packed on muscle. And she became unbeatable.
Her mother, her uncle and her sister are heavily involved in the sport. her friends, her teammates her competitors all in the sport but didn't matter. What prompted that selfish choice? What caused her to take this path when she didn't have to? Didn't she realize how she could embarrass those people if she was caught?
I wonder if she felt bad for Jenny Simpson when she embarrassed her at the US Champs. I wonder if she felt guilty when Rachel Schneider had to graciously thank her for letting her know that her fourth place finish at USAs was good enough for the world champs team since Shelby would not be running the 5K. I wonder if Sifan's blatant doping and cheating made her feel a bit justified.
I'm not going to write her off as a narcissist or a sociopath. No, a personality disorder would be too easy of an excuse. Shelby was just a callow, entitled, and selfish person who chose to dope just like everyone who chooses this path is. I don't care how many there are. If you are a privileged person, and you are choosing to dope, I think nothing of you. I make no excuses for you. You are not a scapegoat, you are not a victim, I feel no sympathy. You could have chosen another path.
Now she's still claiming innocence. how can she think anyone but the gullible running media will believe her? If she fessed up and told the truth like everyone's already figured out what happened, there would be some closure. But now she's trying to make herself into a victim which is even more sickening. Casting doubt on the anti doping system hurts the sport tremendously. Doing it when you know you are guilty is even worse.
To add to this...
Shelby set records that are drugged and may be in place forever. 14:23 and 3:54.99 are un-gettable records for clean runners in the US. Think about how this changes the landscape of American women's distance running. No clean runner can ever hope to get an American record in the 15 or the 5K.
Think about how this changes things for younger kids coming into the sport. For Taylor Roe, Katelyn Tuohy, the BYU women, for even younger than that; Natalie Cook, or any of the next generations phenoms. Shelby didn't just steal from her competitors today. She stole from generations of the future.
This isn't victimless. We don't have to view her as a martyr, or a complex person. She left the sport so much worse off than when she found it, and she found it a bit in tatters to begin with. Dopers steal.
BTW I am revolted by Shelby. What a disgrace she is to the sport.
She could have been anything. She could have done anything. This isn't some story like Faith Kipyegon, who won the Olympics and then her village got electricity for the first time. She was a privileged white American kid who could have gone to college, gotten a job, an apartment, a 401K and run as a hobby on the side. She chose to be a pro runner. she should have respected and honored the sport and her choice. If she couldn't make it clean, then don't make it at all. fall back on something else like dozens of other American runners end up doing. Leave, at least with your integrity.
But she was greedy. 49 seconds off of her 5K PR by 2017, and take an additional 24 seconds between 2017-2018 for that American record. She even shocked her coaches with her progress. Shalane had to scramble to get more and more fitness. Then take an additional 11 seconds off of that time for a 14:23. She blew Jenny Simpson, the world silver medalist, out of the water for the US Title in the 1500 in 2018. Got an American record 3:54.99 out of that too in 2019. She went from a formidable US competitor to unbeatable. In her fourth year as a pro she became a dominant runner for the first time in her life. Even in high school, and college, she was always good but never dominant. But her hairline receded, her facial structure expanded and she packed on muscle. And she became unbeatable.
Her mother, her uncle and her sister are heavily involved in the sport. her friends, her teammates her competitors all in the sport but didn't matter. What prompted that selfish choice? What caused her to take this path when she didn't have to? Didn't she realize how she could embarrass those people if she was caught?
I wonder if she felt bad for Jenny Simpson when she embarrassed her at the US Champs. I wonder if she felt guilty when Rachel Schneider had to graciously thank her for letting her know that her fourth place finish at USAs was good enough for the world champs team since Shelby would not be running the 5K. I wonder if Sifan's blatant doping and cheating made her feel a bit justified.
I'm not going to write her off as a narcissist or a sociopath. No, a personality disorder would be too easy of an excuse. Shelby was just a callow, entitled, and selfish person who chose to dope just like everyone who chooses this path is. I don't care how many there are. If you are a privileged person, and you are choosing to dope, I think nothing of you. I make no excuses for you. You are not a scapegoat, you are not a victim, I feel no sympathy. You could have chosen another path.
Now she's still claiming innocence. how can she think anyone but the gullible running media will believe her? If she fessed up and told the truth like everyone's already figured out what happened, there would be some closure. But now she's trying to make herself into a victim which is even more sickening. Casting doubt on the anti doping system hurts the sport tremendously. Doing it when you know you are guilty is even worse.
To add to this...
Shelby set records that are drugged and may be in place forever. 14:23 and 3:54.99 are un-gettable records for clean runners in the US. Think about how this changes the landscape of American women's distance running. No clean runner can ever hope to get an American record in the 15 or the 5K.
Think about how this changes things for younger kids coming into the sport. For Taylor Roe, Katelyn Tuohy, the BYU women, for even younger than that; Natalie Cook, or any of the next generations phenoms. Shelby didn't just steal from her competitors today. She stole from generations of the future.
This isn't victimless. We don't have to view her as a martyr, or a complex person. She left the sport so much worse off than when she found it, and she found it a bit in tatters to begin with. Dopers steal.
Maybe Shelby is the victim of revolting fans. Who said her records were doped?
BTW I am revolted by Shelby. What a disgrace she is to the sport.
She could have been anything. She could have done anything. This isn't some story like Faith Kipyegon, who won the Olympics and then her village got electricity for the first time. She was a privileged white American kid who could have gone to college, gotten a job, an apartment, a 401K and run as a hobby on the side. She chose to be a pro runner. she should have respected and honored the sport and her choice. If she couldn't make it clean, then don't make it at all. fall back on something else like dozens of other American runners end up doing. Leave, at least with your integrity.
But she was greedy. 49 seconds off of her 5K PR by 2017, and take an additional 24 seconds between 2017-2018 for that American record. She even shocked her coaches with her progress. Shalane had to scramble to get more and more fitness. Then take an additional 11 seconds off of that time for a 14:23. She blew Jenny Simpson, the world silver medalist, out of the water for the US Title in the 1500 in 2018. Got an American record 3:54.99 out of that too in 2019. She went from a formidable US competitor to unbeatable. In her fourth year as a pro she became a dominant runner for the first time in her life. Even in high school, and college, she was always good but never dominant. But her hairline receded, her facial structure expanded and she packed on muscle. And she became unbeatable.
Her mother, her uncle and her sister are heavily involved in the sport. her friends, her teammates her competitors all in the sport but didn't matter. What prompted that selfish choice? What caused her to take this path when she didn't have to? Didn't she realize how she could embarrass those people if she was caught?
I wonder if she felt bad for Jenny Simpson when she embarrassed her at the US Champs. I wonder if she felt guilty when Rachel Schneider had to graciously thank her for letting her know that her fourth place finish at USAs was good enough for the world champs team since Shelby would not be running the 5K. I wonder if Sifan's blatant doping and cheating made her feel a bit justified.
I'm not going to write her off as a narcissist or a sociopath. No, a personality disorder would be too easy of an excuse. Shelby was just a callow, entitled, and selfish person who chose to dope just like everyone who chooses this path is. I don't care how many there are. If you are a privileged person, and you are choosing to dope, I think nothing of you. I make no excuses for you. You are not a scapegoat, you are not a victim, I feel no sympathy. You could have chosen another path.
Now she's still claiming innocence. how can she think anyone but the gullible running media will believe her? If she fessed up and told the truth like everyone's already figured out what happened, there would be some closure. But now she's trying to make herself into a victim which is even more sickening. Casting doubt on the anti doping system hurts the sport tremendously. Doing it when you know you are guilty is even worse.
To add to this...
Shelby set records that are drugged and may be in place forever. 14:23 and 3:54.99 are un-gettable records for clean runners in the US. Think about how this changes the landscape of American women's distance running. No clean runner can ever hope to get an American record in the 15 or the 5K.
Think about how this changes things for younger kids coming into the sport. For Taylor Roe, Katelyn Tuohy, the BYU women, for even younger than that; Natalie Cook, or any of the next generations phenoms. Shelby didn't just steal from her competitors today. She stole from generations of the future.
This isn't victimless. We don't have to view her as a martyr, or a complex person. She left the sport so much worse off than when she found it, and she found it a bit in tatters to begin with. Dopers steal.
epic post. you should have posted under your registered name.
It is a really important point - so many records are now unobtainable to clean runners.
Look at the 100m or the marathon, to take two extremes. there is simply no point if you are undrugged.
The lack of evidence is probably where, in parts of the CAS hearing (as outlined by Ross Tucker in both the Letsrun article and the podcast episode) the Houlihan side didn't offer expert testimoney to argue their side against expert testimoney from WADA/AIU. The weight and pocketbooks of Nike being unable to find an expert for their side certainly says something - either complete unpreparedness/overconfidence over the outcome, or that the defences has so many flaws no one can help them...
Shelby et al. keep saying the process is unfair, there's more evidence to come, anti-doping is flawed etc etc... give us some actual information then for goodness sakes!!!!!
I'm so completely fed up with her defence amounting to absolutely no concrete evidence but these overarching premises of unfairness against her without a single shred of actual substance behind that. And I bet, for the next 3 years we keep hearing this, we'll probably keep hearing it after her "triumphant" comeback.
Shelby -and by association and not seperating themselves - and BTC are growing into a dark cancer on the sport, it'd be nice if some of the big guns (debate can follow on whether they actually deserve that position) in T&F journalism really need to turn their sights on the team.
No. I think I would mostly say what you have been saying. Just once or twice, not 3000 times.
Armstronglivs, based on my past experience on this forum, is a jerk and his posts are the insufferable bane of online forums, filled with extreme conviction on most issues he actually knows little about, weakly piddling out when challenged to actually produce scientific or authoritative references, and overly trigger happy to fire first-strike with gratuitous nasty verbal assaults on the poster instead of responding to the substantive content of their posts. For his posts alone, I wish there was a “block” feature on here so I didn’t have to see them.
Perhaps you could tell me the substantive content of your post?
Whether or not a crime was committed is often not dependent on whether or not there was an intent to commit a crime. There are many examples where you can break the law even if you did not intend to do so. It’s just about how the law is written.
Correct. Intent typically matters more for sentencing, e.g., first degree murder vs manslaughter, or adding on a hate crime charge to a crime, willful vs negligent property damage, etc.
There really isn’t a fundamental difference in the principle of justice between criminal prosecution and PED use, including the innocent until proven guilty part, just differences of procedural implementation. Commenters arguing otherwise appear to not be able to see the difference between an analogy of principle and literal likeness.
That isn't correct. Intent is in most instances a necessary ingredient of establishing a crime was committed. It isn't an aggravating factor of sentencing but a determinant of the nature of the offence. There is no murder without it. Lesser intent produces a lesser offence. Lack of intent and it isn't murder. But most crimes require it.
Because drug use is not a crime it isn't subject to the same onus of proof that applies to a crime (that includes proving intent), the more demanding evidential evidential requirements, enlarged rights of defence (which is that guilt must be proven to the highest standard of beyond reasonable doubt) and tougher penalties, that include substantial fines and even incarceration. That's a lot of differences.
The reason is two-fold. Crimes are offences against society; drug use isn't - it is a breach of the rules of sport only. The second reason is that of proving intent. It would make it extremely difficult to obtain a verdict of guilt and would consequently defeat an anti-doping policy. If it were treated as a crime that did not require proof of intent that would be considered unjust. It would not be seen as an acceptable law. That is why it is currently not treated as a crime.