Off season 800m training

You sound like a true 800m runner. Which means you have to hit on everything. 70-80 might be too much mileage, but threshold and more intense longer intervals with longer rest (to keep the workout intensity low) are good ways to build the aerobic base. I personally think you should do speed at least once, preferably twice a week. I do a twice a week session of 4x30m flying sprints all out and time them with my phone camera on a tripod and an app called CMV which allows me to get accurate timing. I’ve improved my top speed a lot doing this. Even workouts that are more anaerobic like 10x200m at 800m pace with 2 minutes rest can be done from time to time

Okay! If you don’t mind would you reply with an example week?

You aren’t going to build meaningful top end speed on 70-80 mpw.

It all depends on how much you care about this upcoming XC season. It would probably be good to take a break from the speed stuff and rebuild your base to avoid injury and keep your periodization going. I like to focus on raw speed in the late fall/winter.

Id honestly shoot to just maintain speed this XC season, and then work on building speed once the season ends. If you show up to the first day of indoor still in 51.5 shape you’ll surely run faster throughout the season, especially if you’re working on speed.

Do 3-5x150m at least once a week after easy runs during base and you should be fine.

What is your current mileage? What mileage have you run historically, incl last summer?

Last summer I peaked at 75 at the end one week but my average week was 60 but I also couldn’t work on speed last summer due to bad hamstring tendinitis so it was all mileage with one easy fartlek every week

Why not just run 60mpw? That's already pretty good mileage for an aspiring 1:50 guy. Maybe go for quality versus quantity: you're limited by your 400m speed anyway. I'd guess that if you can develop aerobically while doing speed development at the same time, without grinding yourself down with too many miles, that may be your best bet.

Simple approach: Mon/Tue/Thu/Fri easy miles. Wed 6 x 1000 tempo/LT/cruise repeats with 200m jog, plus 20 x 100m strides in flats on grass/turf @ 70-75% 100m speed with 1 min rest (extensive tempo). Sat 5 x 80m hill accelerations (smooth but hard accel, top speed last 30m) with 5 min rest, plus squat-jumps. Sun long run, keep it a bit slower than normal easy pace.

Just as the 1000m repeats might get a bit faster with fitness, the 100m strides might progress to 75-80%, but no faster! If the total 8K session starts to feel too easy, you can jog the 200m intervals a bit faster and/or reduce the extensive tempo rest to 45 sec, then 30 sec.

4 months of that, then transition the midweek tempo session to 8 x 400m @ mile pace with 400m jog; transition the hills to 4 x 150m faster than 400m pace.

Then you come into early track season healthy, strong, fit, and fast.

Oh, and if you follow that, don't add anything else to Sat other than a warmup (no dang cooldown! there's no lactate to process or whatever people think is happening there. Make like a sprinter and just walk away when the workout is done) and maybe a super easy pool session.

Some useful threads

All good threads. Esp the sub 1:50 thread. However, and the reason I didn't suggest it to OP, here we've got a 51.5 / 1:54.9 guy with on-and-off recent injuries looking to suddenly (this summer) increase mileage to 70-80 mpw as an attempted solution to improving speed and aerobic endurance.

I'm no expert, but in my understanding until you've run 49.x or faster, and probably 1:52-ish or better, many of the high-level insights in the sub-1:50 and similar threads may not be as applicable.

So, what to do in the meantime? IMHO moderate mileage, plenty of consistent LT/tempo work, focus on speed development, plenty of "strength" work at mile pace, and get that 400 time down. My simple-approach suggestions, above, are with these specific aims in mind.

As I say, just some thoughts from a nobody :)

Thanks! This is super helpful! If you don’t mind exchanging emails I would love to ask some more questions and go over it a bit more extensively.

OP. If you need a coach, I’m happy to do it for free. I’ve run 1.48 and have a coaching license. Drop an email to runningsolved@gmail.com and we can talk through some potential approaches.

Well, I wouldn't mind but tbh I don't have much more to add/clarify ... I'm proposing 3 phases:

Phase 1 - About 4 months, building up to 60 mpw. Midweek tempo session 1000m repeats (starting with maybe 3 reps, building up to 6 reps) plus 2K extensive tempo work (this is like what might be prescribed for a long sprinter but would, in my understanding, more commonly be prescribed as something like 10 x 200m r2. I'm suggesting 100's to lighten the intensity a bit, given that it is part of a longer tempo workout; also, 20 x 100m r1 will keep your heart rate up for a longer duration of time than 10 x 200 so that's my thinking there). Pure speed on Saturday (short intense session), long run on Sunday.

Fairly straightforward, except that I am suggesting that instead of building up to the typical 8 x 1000m, you do the last 2K at a faster pace by implementing an extensive tempo concept from long-sprinter training. The idea here is that the Phase 1 extensive tempo work plus the pure speed work will prepare you for the Phase 2 speed endurance work, which ideally will drop your 400m time. This is critical bc you have already done well running 1:54 off 51 speed; for additional significant improvements, you'll want to be capable of sub-50 if possible. That, plus substantial aerobic development, which will likely take 2-4 years. So, speed first while developing aerobically, is my understanding.

Phase 2 - About 4 months, maintaining 60 mpw. Midweek 8 x 400m @ mile pace with 400m jog, meaning the pure LT work has transitioned to LT-touching-on-VO2-max work -- in my understanding, good prep work preseason for 800m. Not 10 x 400 like a 1500/miler session; not just 1 min or 200m rec like for milers; my guess is that this should be sufficient without over-doing it. The idea here, and for this entire approach really, is that consistency over time beats sudden ramp-ups to big miles or high intensity. Is this absolutely correct? Heck, I dunno. But it sounds good to me! Training is always both an experiment and an act of faith to some extent, right?

Phase 3 - Track season. I assume mileage will drop over the course of the season. Workouts according to your coach. If executed well, and it if worked for you, this proposed plan got you to Day 1 of next track season stronger, aerobically fitter, significantly faster, and uninjured. With some appropriate 400m work, ideally you should be ready for a big PR (sub-50 should be a goal, either open 400m or relay leg). With a well-planned track season, ideally your 800m should drop as well.

Hmm ok, I guess there was stuff to clarify.

Caveat: these are just some thoughts from a nobody. I've read and studied stuff, but I'm no expert. In the best of my understanding, I think these suggestions are reasonably on point, but lots of folks know way more than I do.

Good luck, hope this helps :)