Ok I will just say what everyone is too afraid to say. Nyonsaba is simply too manly looking, which introduces this huge reaction everytime he/she runs, ruining otherwise quality women's distance events. Regardless of whether she is built like a bull or a doe underneath those loose shorts she wears, it would be more tolerable if she at least looked like a woman
Ok I will just say what everyone is too afraid to say. Nyonsaba is simply too manly looking, which introduces this huge reaction everytime he/she runs, ruining otherwise quality women's distance events. Regardless of whether she is built like a bull or a doe underneath those loose shorts she wears, it would be more tolerable if she at least looked like a woman
No, it would only be tolerable if she did not possess testes.
I have a lot of sympathy for Niyonsaba, whereas I have zero sympathy for trans women trying to compete in elite sport.
If you were born without male genitalia, it would be natural to assume you were female. In reality, she is intersex, but 100 years ago, no one likely would know that as we wouldn't know her chromosones, her testoerone levels or her lack of a uterus.
Agree on the first point, to second point possible but not likely, people were aware of these situations all the way back literally to biblical times (see Matt 19), eventually her condition would be understood and addressed. Many different historical cultures would find employ intersex people into specific roles taylored to the circumstance.
Clearly Niyonsaba is much closer to women times than men times. She is probably in the category where she needs to be.
Wow, when I was a below average Division 1 male runner, my times were about the same as the women's world records. I guess I should have been running the women's "category", where I needed to be.
Clearly Niyonsaba is much closer to women times than men times. She is probably in the category where she needs to be.
Wow, when I was a below average Division 1 male runner, my times were about the same as the women's world records. I guess I should have been running the women's "category", where I needed to be.
She has no business out there vs women, where is the common sense at?
She can be who she is but she simply can't compete in sports vs women.
She is exactly where she should be in athletics. So many of you snowflakes melt and are so threatened by a woman like Francine, probably partly because she is a better athlete than most of you guys.
One of the most troubling aspects of the reporting of the DSD athletes such as Semenya, Niyonsaba, etc. is that they are frequently referred to by serious media outlets as 'women with naturally high testosterone', 'women with a dsd' or 'intersex'. Whilst I understand that these descriptions are sensitive and respectful to the athletes themselves, all of these descriptions suggest that the athletes are- at least in some way- biologically female (e.g. when I first heard about the controversy around these athletes I assumed they maybe had something like extreme polycystic ovary syndrome. Because of this, I was dead against plans to restrict their right to compete). In reality however, these athletes have none of the biological markers that most people without blue hair would associate with women (uterus, XX chromosomes, vulva, periods, wide hips, etc.) To enhance understanding when reporting about this topic, a more accurate description of these athletes would be 'biological males raised as women due to atypical growth of external genitalia'.
Like Rojo, I certainly feel much more sympathy for these athletes and their desire to compete compared to the likes of Lia Thomas, but it is beyond doubt that fairness is compromised with their inclusion. We need only look at the 2016 800m women's podium to confirm this.
One of the most troubling aspects of the reporting of the DSD athletes such as Semenya, Niyonsaba, etc. is that they are frequently referred to by serious media outlets as 'women with naturally high testosterone',
Its a shame that so many reporters say that, because it's not true. They aren't women with high testosterone. They are biological males with normal levels of testosterone for a male.
Most reporters refuse to say the truth. If they were being honest they would say, "Man without a penis just beat a bunch of women."
She has no business out there vs women, where is the common sense at?
She can be who she is but she simply can't compete in sports vs women.
She is exactly where she should be in athletics. So many of you snowflakes melt and are so threatened by a woman like Francine, probably partly because she is a better athlete than most of you guys.
She is more like us guys, as you put it, than meets the eye.
One of the most troubling aspects of the reporting of the DSD athletes such as Semenya, Niyonsaba, etc. is that they are frequently referred to by serious media outlets as 'women with naturally high testosterone', 'women with a dsd' or 'intersex'. Whilst I understand that these descriptions are sensitive and respectful to the athletes themselves, all of these descriptions suggest that the athletes are- at least in some way- biologically female (e.g. when I first heard about the controversy around these athletes I assumed they maybe had something like extreme polycystic ovary syndrome. Because of this, I was dead against plans to restrict their right to compete). In reality however, these athletes have none of the biological markers that most people without blue hair would associate with women (uterus, XX chromosomes, vulva, periods, wide hips, etc.) To enhance understanding when reporting about this topic, a more accurate description of these athletes would be 'biological males raised as women due to atypical growth of external genitalia'.
Like Rojo, I certainly feel much more sympathy for these athletes and their desire to compete compared to the likes of Lia Thomas, but it is beyond doubt that fairness is compromised with their inclusion. We need only look at the 2016 800m women's podium to confirm this.
You make an important point about media coverage. In fact, if the media reported on these athletes accurately, the public would actually know that all of the medalists in the 800m at Rio were male.
In response to posters arguing for the inclusion of DSD males in the women's division on the grounds that they're running elite women's but not elite men's times: this is a numbers game. Very few people have 5-alpha reductase deficiency, so the talent pool is much smaller for this group than the pool of typical males. Semenya and Niyonsaba run women's elite times rather than men's times because they are non-elite males, not because males with this condition are somehow equivalent to females.
One of the most troubling aspects of the reporting of the DSD athletes such as Semenya, Niyonsaba, etc. is that they are frequently referred to by serious media outlets as 'women with naturally high testosterone', 'women with a dsd' or 'intersex'. Whilst I understand that these descriptions are sensitive and respectful to the athletes themselves, all of these descriptions suggest that the athletes are- at least in some way- biologically female (e.g. when I first heard about the controversy around these athletes I assumed they maybe had something like extreme polycystic ovary syndrome. Because of this, I was dead against plans to restrict their right to compete). In reality however, these athletes have none of the biological markers that most people without blue hair would associate with women (uterus, XX chromosomes, vulva, periods, wide hips, etc.) To enhance understanding when reporting about this topic, a more accurate description of these athletes would be 'biological males raised as women due to atypical growth of external genitalia'.
Like Rojo, I certainly feel much more sympathy for these athletes and their desire to compete compared to the likes of Lia Thomas, but it is beyond doubt that fairness is compromised with their inclusion. We need only look at the 2016 800m women's podium to confirm this.
You make an important point about media coverage. In fact, if the media reported on these athletes accurately, the public would actually know that all of the medalists in the 800m at Rio were male.
In response to posters arguing for the inclusion of DSD males in the women's division on the grounds that they're running elite women's but not elite men's times: this is a numbers game. Very few people have 5-alpha reductase deficiency, so the talent pool is much smaller for this group than the pool of typical males. Semenya and Niyonsaba run women's elite times rather than men's times because they are non-elite males, not because males with this condition are somehow equivalent to females.
Does Niyonsaba also have 5-ARD? I was unaware her specific type of DSD was made public.
Yes it. And what Wejo and I were talking about are people like Fanny Blankers Koen (And I know I messed up the spelling) who dominated their sport then (in her case) were found to be "men" on the inside after she died.
It could be that you aren't old enough to have seen what we're talking about on TV.
40-100 years ago we would just think that "woman" was more "masculine" than the others.
I didn't read the rest of your post because you started off wrong.
Fanny BK was a mother of two and was not found to be a 'man' after she died.
Fanny BK was a mother of two and was not found to be a 'man' after she died.
Can only assume they meant Stanisława Walasiewicz. Olympic gold and other world titles but later found to have no uterus and an underdeveloped penis upon death.