To be blunt (since too many people beat around the bush about this topic) Niyonsaba is a male who had a birth defect that caused the penis not to grow. Does male without a penis equal female? No.
Exactly. XY males should NEVER be allowed into women's events.
When was the last time that a white guy was ranked in the top 10 at 100m?
…a very long time ago.
White guys are inferior to black men at 100m. In a sense it’s unfair. Should white guys have their own category? Probably not. How many categories would we need? If white guys can’t have their own category (which would be very well represented) does it make sense to have an entire category for a few intersex athletes?
Clearly Niyonsaba is much closer to women times than men times. She is probably in the category where she needs to be.
When was the last time that a white guy was ranked in the top 10 at 100m?
…a very long time ago.
White guys are inferior to black men at 100m. In a sense it’s unfair. Should white guys have their own category? Probably not. How many categories would we need? If white guys can’t have their own category (which would be very well represented) does it make sense to have an entire category for a few intersex athletes?
Clearly Niyonsaba is much closer to women times than men times. She is probably in the category where she needs to be.
Wow. I’m shocked by the complete lack of logical ability here. Are so many people this stupid? Let me explain it to you further: It’s not about the individual, it’s about the entire class and the overlap (and lack thereof).
Think of 2 curves overlapping each other (or mainly). it’s appropriate that we have those 2 populations competing against each other, because they are mainly equal. Some individuals suck; some are outrageously good - but, in general - the two populations overlap. 2 curves closely overlapping.
Now think of the other extreme: 2 curves that are very far apart, and don’t overlap at all, with a wide distance between them. Kind of like the average speed rating of a turtle vs the speed rating of a cheetah.
Now think of 2 curves that barely overlap, but only at the very corners. That is somewhat similar to the male vs female human. Due to the lack of overlap, except at the very corners, it is appropriate that these two groups are in distinct categories. Ie. Bad club runner males still beat elite women. Not even the most talented female the world has ever produced has even the tiniest chance against elite or very good males. Hence, different categories required!
Indeed, this is just stupidity to the power of 3. As if steroids only helps for 400 - 1609 meters. Ask, for example, Baumann or Decker or Houlihan or Kisorio or common sense.
I have a lot of sympathy for Niyonsaba, whereas I have zero sympathy for trans women trying to compete in elite sport.
If you were born without male genitalia, it would be natural to assume you were female. In reality, she is intersex, but 100 years ago, no one likely would know that as we wouldn't know her chromosones, her testoerone levels or her lack of a uterus.
Even 20-30 years ago we had XY with female genitalia competing. We always assume the oldest WRs are PED driven, and maybe they are, but I would bet they are also XY athletes who looked every bit female.
Clearly Niyonsaba is much closer to women times than men times. She is probably in the category where she needs to be.
That makes no sense at all.
Many of the males on this message board have times closer to elite females than to elite males. Should they be allowed to compete in the female division?
There is a women’s and men’s section for a reason. It’s damn common sense. No data required. Just like there is probably no data comparing thr head-to-head speed of a racehorse vs a frog. It’s dumb. There is no elite women’s sport if XY men are allowed to compete.
Maybe you can call up the people at CAS who made that decision and educate them, because they don't seem to understand that.
In reality, she is intersex, but 100 years ago, no one likely would know that as we wouldn't know her chromosones, her testoerone levels or her lack of a uterus.
The topic of intersex women competing against XX women is an interesting one.
I consider myself very left liberal, yet I think their inclusion into the women’s category should be monitored/held to the same guidelines as XX women.
Brought this discussion up with conservative family members once and they disagreed. They felt that even though they XY chromosomes/internal testes, they should be allowed to compete unencumbered in the womens category. Was very surprised to learn this.
I guess just goes to show how nuanced this topic is.
Someone I know who is VERY conservative says- there's ONE test if you're a male or female- just look at their genitals. He's very ignorant but so are so many others.
Rojo made a good point- 100 years ago, 40-50 years ago, no one would have known they were intersex.
I, too, have sympathy for them and my feelings on males choosing to become female is that they should sacrifice participating in sports (by their own choice).
There is a women’s and men’s section for a reason. It’s damn common sense. No data required. Just like there is probably no data comparing thr head-to-head speed of a racehorse vs a frog. It’s dumb. There is no elite women’s sport if XY men are allowed to compete.
Maybe you can call up the people at CAS who made that decision and educate them, because they don't seem to understand that.
They understand it perfectly well like anyone with common sense. They are just very worried about a misstep in this PC environment. Some people love to push obviously absurd positions just to challenge the status quo and be progressive.
Clearly Niyonsaba is much closer to women times than men times. She is probably in the category where she needs to be.
That makes no sense at all.
Many of the males on this message board have times closer to elite females than to elite males. Should they be allowed to compete in the female division?
I said Niyonsaba because we were talking about her. The whole group of intersex athletes are running women times. on the top end, but…. Caster, Wambui, Masilingi, Mboma… none of them are even running good HS boy times.
Yes, they could have their own category. However, white men sprinters could also have their own category. But I don’t think so. It’s fine the way it is.
African Americans make up 12.4 percent of US population. Everything being equal, there would be 0.0000055895067% chance that all 8 finalist at the 100m US trials would be African Americans. 0.0000000000003% chance that it happens in 2 consecutive trials. You can continue that way and see what the odds are for 3 trials. I am not even looking at medalists, but going all the way down to simply being a finalist.
Everything is not equal.
Some white guys do make standard to run the 100m at the trials however. So they should run in the men category.
Zero intersex even come close to making men standards.
I have a lot of sympathy for Niyonsaba, whereas I have zero sympathy for trans women trying to compete in elite sport.
If you were born without male genitalia, it would be natural to assume you were female. In reality, she is intersex, but 100 years ago, no one likely would know that as we wouldn't know her chromosones, her testoerone levels or her lack of a uterus.
Even 20-30 years ago we had XY with female genitalia competing. We always assume the oldest WRs are PED driven, and maybe they are, but I would bet they are also XY athletes who looked every bit female.
Have you seen those 80s 400/800m record holders? They didn't look every bit female...
Maybe you can call up the people at CAS who made that decision and educate them, because they don't seem to understand that.
Why are you blaming CAS? This is about the IAAF's DSD Regulations from 2018, that only cover events from 400 - 1609 m (and only 46 XY DSD). CAS (and later SFT) merely upheld the regulations, after Caster Semenya's and Athletics South Africa's appeal.
Not that simple, Big Tex. There are people who are chromosomally XX, but have the SRY gene and develop a full male phenotype, including external genitalia, testes, the whole 9. Could they sign up for your XX category?
The SRY gene in chromosomally normally males is located on the Y chromosome. Yes, there are translocations of the SRY gene to autosomes and these individuals develop as fully male. So, I think just amend the rule to no individuals possessing the SRY gene are eligible to compete in the female division. Problem solved.