I do know what I’m talking about. I completely get that dealing with bratty kids, unpleasant parents, and school politics is not easy.
However, compare that to the typical $200K per year salary job in a for profit corporate job. Crazy deadlines requiring nights, weekends, and very little paid time off. I get 20 days paid per year, but I typically will only use half of it because I will just be behind when I get back from vacation. While I can delegate, I’m a working executive that has to think big picture and roll up the sleeves and get in the weeds on a daily basis.
My personal experience may be unique, but the corporate world is pretty ruthless if you want to get to the top. Always someone younger and hungrier aiming for your position. It is likely difficult to be a good teacher. But there’s a lot of mediocre teachers out there. I do wish there was more incentive to be a good teacher other than a sense of pride and accomplishment.
Keep in mind they only work 3/4 of the year so that 65k is more like 87k. Average household income in the USA is more like 50k.
Anyways, this isn't intended to be a teacher-bashing thread. Personally I LOVE some of my teachers so I'm glad those ones are well paid.
Point is did you realize they were paid so highly?
Wow! This is tragic! I can't believe we pay teachers a modest normal salary rather than push them close to the poverty line. I think we need to pay idiot buffoons with banking jobs more and teachers much much less; it only makes sense to to make the job of teaching our children only a viable career for aspiring homeless people. PAY TEACHERS MUCH MUCH LESS!!!!!
I do know what I’m talking about. I completely get that dealing with bratty kids, unpleasant parents, and school politics is not easy.
However, compare that to the typical $200K per year salary job in a for profit corporate job. Crazy deadlines requiring nights, weekends, and very little paid time off. I get 20 days paid per year, but I typically will only use half of it because I will just be behind when I get back from vacation. While I can delegate, I’m a working executive that has to think big picture and roll up the sleeves and get in the weeds on a daily basis.
My personal experience may be unique, but the corporate world is pretty ruthless if you want to get to the top. Always someone younger and hungrier aiming for your position. It is likely difficult to be a good teacher. But there’s a lot of mediocre teachers out there. I do wish there was more incentive to be a good teacher other than a sense of pride and accomplishment.
Most of the corporate world is a joke; it is not that hard and if you are making $200k why are you complaining about hard working teachers making 65k? Troll. -3/10
Higher pay means better candidates. I would rather my 2nd grader be taught by someone who is good at teaching, has a positive outlook, and has a high GPA from a good school, than a 2.75 GPA from a crappy school and doesn't care about teaching.
Higher pay DOES NOT mean better candidates. Higher pay means you get greedier candidates, not candidates more passionate about teaching. Higher pay does not mean you'll get more teachers that want to do an exceptional job.
I own a company and I needed more people to work the night shift. I offered more money to get more people to work the night shift. Did that attract better workers? NO. It attracted workers that want more money for the same or less work as before.
In this case it is clear we should pay people in the banking industry less; then we would have more people less likely to steel our money.
I do know what I’m talking about. I completely get that dealing with bratty kids, unpleasant parents, and school politics is not easy.
However, compare that to the typical $200K per year salary job in a for profit corporate job. Crazy deadlines requiring nights, weekends, and very little paid time off. I get 20 days paid per year, but I typically will only use half of it because I will just be behind when I get back from vacation. While I can delegate, I’m a working executive that has to think big picture and roll up the sleeves and get in the weeds on a daily basis.
My personal experience may be unique, but the corporate world is pretty ruthless if you want to get to the top. Always someone younger and hungrier aiming for your position. It is likely difficult to be a good teacher. But there’s a lot of mediocre teachers out there. I do wish there was more incentive to be a good teacher other than a sense of pride and accomplishment.
Most of the corporate world is a joke; it is not that hard and if you are making $200k why are you complaining about hard working teachers making 65k? Troll. -3/10
Some of the corporate world is a joke, agreed. Executive positions at innovative companies are no joke. My CEO works 7 days a week. Every single day, real work. I have to work 50-60 hours just to get close to keeping up with him, but I have equity in the company so it’s not just for a paycheck.
I make more than $200K. I’m not complaining, just stating my opinion. If there was a way for good teachers to make over $100K, I’d be all for it.
I do know what I’m talking about. I completely get that dealing with bratty kids, unpleasant parents, and school politics is not easy.
However, compare that to the typical $200K per year salary job in a for profit corporate job. Crazy deadlines requiring nights, weekends, and very little paid time off. I get 20 days paid per year, but I typically will only use half of it because I will just be behind when I get back from vacation. While I can delegate, I’m a working executive that has to think big picture and roll up the sleeves and get in the weeds on a daily basis.
My personal experience may be unique, but the corporate world is pretty ruthless if you want to get to the top. Always someone younger and hungrier aiming for your position. It is likely difficult to be a good teacher. But there’s a lot of mediocre teachers out there. I do wish there was more incentive to be a good teacher other than a sense of pride and accomplishment.
100% correct. What you said applies to $45k per year corporate jobs too, not just 200k.
Teachers can complain about the students all they want, but it's 10x worse in corporate america with a nightmare boss. Think Donald Trump "you're fired" type of boss that makes you work 80 hours per week.
As a teacher, you NEVER get called in to work on a weekend. You NEVER have to do any work on vacation. You NEVER have to check your email after the school day ends.
Most of the corporate world is a joke; it is not that hard and if you are making $200k why are you complaining about hard working teachers making 65k? Troll. -3/10
Some of the corporate world is a joke, agreed. Executive positions at innovative companies are no joke. My CEO works 7 days a week. Every single day, real work. I have to work 50-60 hours just to get close to keeping up with him, but I have equity in the company so it’s not just for a paycheck.
I make more than $200K. I’m not complaining, just stating my opinion. If there was a way for good teachers to make over $100K, I’d be all for it.
It is a joke. Working 7 days a week is very common in many professions. Many good teachers also work 7 days a week preparing and assessing their students work. You are living in an echo-chamber of average intelligence rich people. Yes, success in all avenues requires hard work 24/7. There are likely more lazy overpaid useless stupid people working in the banking industry than there are those giving to society by teaching our children for average to below average pay. People at the poverty line working 2 40+ hour a week minimum wage jobs to support their family work a lot harder that your boss; I am sorry, but it is true. Money seems to delude people into thinking they are working hard for it and deserve it, but in most cases this is just not true. Main point here, there is no need to trash the modest to low paid teachers devoting their lives to teaching society when droves of idiots get paid 5-10X as much doing a shoddy job in corporate positions.
Some of the corporate world is a joke, agreed. Executive positions at innovative companies are no joke. My CEO works 7 days a week. Every single day, real work. I have to work 50-60 hours just to get close to keeping up with him, but I have equity in the company so it’s not just for a paycheck.
I make more than $200K. I’m not complaining, just stating my opinion. If there was a way for good teachers to make over $100K, I’d be all for it.
It is a joke. Working 7 days a week is very common in many professions. Many good teachers also work 7 days a week preparing and assessing their students work. You are living in an echo-chamber of average intelligence rich people. Yes, success in all avenues requires hard work 24/7. There are likely more lazy overpaid useless stupid people working in the banking industry than there are those giving to society by teaching our children for average to below average pay. People at the poverty line working 2 40+ hour a week minimum wage jobs to support their family work a lot harder that your boss; I am sorry, but it is true. Money seems to delude people into thinking they are working hard for it and deserve it, but in most cases this is just not true. Main point here, there is no need to trash the modest to low paid teachers devoting their lives to teaching society when droves of idiots get paid 5-10X as much doing a shoddy job in corporate positions.
I’m not saying he opens his laptop 7 days a week, he does 6 10-11 hour days and 1 4-6 hour day. I’ve never seen anyone work as much as him.
Agreed that many people coast ones the corporate world making much more than they should. Usually a combo of luck and/or nepotism.
I do know what I’m talking about. I completely get that dealing with bratty kids, unpleasant parents, and school politics is not easy.
However, compare that to the typical $200K per year salary job in a for profit corporate job. Crazy deadlines requiring nights, weekends, and very little paid time off. I get 20 days paid per year, but I typically will only use half of it because I will just be behind when I get back from vacation. While I can delegate, I’m a working executive that has to think big picture and roll up the sleeves and get in the weeds on a daily basis.
My personal experience may be unique, but the corporate world is pretty ruthless if you want to get to the top. Always someone younger and hungrier aiming for your position. It is likely difficult to be a good teacher. But there’s a lot of mediocre teachers out there. I do wish there was more incentive to be a good teacher other than a sense of pride and accomplishment.
100% correct. What you said applies to $45k per year corporate jobs too, not just 200k.
Teachers can complain about the students all they want, but it's 10x worse in corporate america with a nightmare boss. Think Donald Trump "you're fired" type of boss that makes you work 80 hours per week.
As a teacher, you NEVER get called in to work on a weekend. You NEVER have to do any work on vacation. You NEVER have to check your email after the school day ends.
None of what you said is really that true and most corporate jobs are not that taxing. If you work for a bad boss, go somewhere else.
I do know what I’m talking about. I completely get that dealing with bratty kids, unpleasant parents, and school politics is not easy.
However, compare that to the typical $200K per year salary job in a for profit corporate job. Crazy deadlines requiring nights, weekends, and very little paid time off. I get 20 days paid per year, but I typically will only use half of it because I will just be behind when I get back from vacation. While I can delegate, I’m a working executive that has to think big picture and roll up the sleeves and get in the weeds on a daily basis.
My personal experience may be unique, but the corporate world is pretty ruthless if you want to get to the top. Always someone younger and hungrier aiming for your position. It is likely difficult to be a good teacher. But there’s a lot of mediocre teachers out there. I do wish there was more incentive to be a good teacher other than a sense of pride and accomplishment.
I dont understand? Because a corporate job is much more difficult than teaching a $65,000 is a good salary? Your description of the corporate world and its ruthlessness presents a great case why you deserve a high salary but doesn't convince me that a $65,000 salary for teachers is very good. Maybe you're both underpaid.
Teachers are way underpaid. $65k might be decent money if you live in Youngstown, Ohio. But in any major metro area, it is crap. Realtors and car salesmen will make more than that.
The difference teachers can make in kids' lives is astounding. It has always shocked me how in the US we see teaching as just another service job. In the Scandinavian counties, teachers are considered professionals on par with doctors and lawyers. A bad teacher can wreck a child's education and emotional growth. My son had a lousy teacher in 3rd grade and went from being a total teacher's pet star student to a big discipline problem and hated doing any kind of school work. We barely made it through 3rd grade in one piece. In 4th, his teacher was amazing. He immediately flipped and got the principal's award for having the best grades and conduct scores in his class. I can't imagine what would have happened if he had a lousy 4th grade teacher.
Good realtors and car salesmen make more than that. Most fizzle out within a year or two because they make way less than $65K.
Being a teacher is an honorable job, but it usually doesn’t mean big money. Teachers go into the profession knowing this, and the bar is pretty low to get into teaching. If we want to treat teachers like doctors, they would need much more rigorous schooling and exam process. Even lawyers have higher standards, but being a lawyer really isn’t that difficult either.
I have 3 friends in teaching that enjoy their work schedule and their winter break, spring break and summer break. They knew it wouldn’t be extremely lucrative and don’t seem to care. One of them is married to a woman that makes the big $, so he’s exceptionally happy.
$65K seems pretty good for 9 months of a relatively easy job. I’m not saying it’s not important, because it is, it’s just not that hard. Of course the difficulty depends if your teaching 4 grade PE or AP Calculus
Wouldn't he feel weird his wife makes tons more than him and emasculated even though he likes teaching? I'd never want to have a sugar mama. Just being honest. If she made a little bit more than him, no biggie, honestly, but if your wife made tons more that'd just make it awkward.
Folks with 80-something I.Q. are currently earning $(15 to 17.5)/hour. Teachers are making more than x 2 minimum wage. Teachers deserve more money.
I have stated on this cite numerous times, skilled labor have always been behind push for increases in minimum wage in U.S. and I possibly other countries.
The reason people go to college is to become leaders in their community. No one should be in charge of anything without at least 1/2 a dozen college economics courses. All this is covered in labor economics (or should be covered in college labor economics courses).
Agree with this. My soon-to-be-wife makes 51k with a master's and works her tail off, she's been teaching for 8 years. It's a tough career to advance if you aren't in the right schools. Catholic schools pay crap. She's a reading teacher and knows Orton Gillingham is now the thing but she just went through 3 years of getting an MA already, and doesn't want to turn around and spend even yet more $ to get that. But schools in Columbus want that. The target moved, basically.
I make $20 an hour (42k) but WFH is nice now, and I got a nice raise. Big difference from 38k. Not complaining honestly, my job doing verification has improved because they are recognizing our department and giving us better responsibilities.
I may get a potential job for 56k but it's 70 minutes away, 1 way, and the management and department (content management/social media/writing) is disorganized. I will probably turn it down and freelance while I keep looking.
Keep in mind they only work 3/4 of the year so that 65k is more like 87k. Average household income in the USA is more like 50k.
Anyways, this isn't intended to be a teacher-bashing thread. Personally I LOVE some of my teachers so I'm glad those ones are well paid.
Point is did you realize they were paid so highly?
Teaching is the among the cushiest jobs there is and easiest major, so yes we need to stop acting like they are astronauts. But, I think all of you are living in 1989 or whenever you got out of college? 65K is nothing. You want teachers to make poverty wages? 65k is barely enough to buy a tiny house and one car. Sh!* is expensive. 65 just aint what it used to be. if its a great job and 65 K is big bucks then why dont all you go back to community college and get a certificate?
Having said all of that, I would like to see them get docked 100$ an hour for every day they let my kids out for half day. Not everyone has stay at home mom or dad these days chuckleheads. Just watch the dang kids til 3 each day ok?
Flawed math there. First, most teachers are contracted for 200 days, not 180. Further, you compared it to days in a year, not work days in a year. There are 250 work days in a year. Other salaried positions will also have time off, maybe 4 weeks or more per year. I had 5 weeks in my previous management job. That brings it down to 240 days. So, that comes down to about 8 weeks difference. When you add in the days/hours spent coaching, (which the pay for here is miniscule) you can see where the pay is not as great as you suggest for the amount of time involved. I make less than $60k per year with roughly 20 years experience and a Master's degree, even with my coaching supplement.
My opinion is based off my wife working for a fairly affluent district in California. Yes she works only 180 days and is well paid for not working long hours. It's a sweet gig. Teaching high school in a poorer district might suck but that's not what I'm talking about. We also saved a ton of money on daycare when the kids were younger. Teaching is a good gig for those who can get it in California.
That's the key.
A lot of kids coming out of college know the way to one of the last lifetime jobs in America is teaching at an upper-middle-class district. Columbus City Schools pays well but nobody will want to teach due to the types of kids there. The suburban districts like Dublin and Westerville are saturated with candidates each year.
In theory you get in early in those districts and you're set until you're 65. (In your case, Calif. equivalent).
Some of the corporate world is a joke, agreed. Executive positions at innovative companies are no joke. My CEO works 7 days a week. Every single day, real work. I have to work 50-60 hours just to get close to keeping up with him, but I have equity in the company so it’s not just for a paycheck.
I make more than $200K. I’m not complaining, just stating my opinion. If there was a way for good teachers to make over $100K, I’d be all for it.
It is a joke. Working 7 days a week is very common in many professions. Many good teachers also work 7 days a week preparing and assessing their students work. You are living in an echo-chamber of average intelligence rich people. Yes, success in all avenues requires hard work 24/7. There are likely more lazy overpaid useless stupid people working in the banking industry than there are those giving to society by teaching our children for average to below average pay. People at the poverty line working 2 40+ hour a week minimum wage jobs to support their family work a lot harder that your boss; I am sorry, but it is true. Money seems to delude people into thinking they are working hard for it and deserve it, but in most cases this is just not true. Main point here, there is no need to trash the modest to low paid teachers devoting their lives to teaching society when droves of idiots get paid 5-10X as much doing a shoddy job in corporate positions.
That's an interesting point. A lot of people making $$ work hard for it (teaching is upper-class in some areas and not in others), but some get it simply due to connections.
Keep in mind they only work 3/4 of the year so that 65k is more like 87k. Average household income in the USA is more like 50k.
Anyways, this isn't intended to be a teacher-bashing thread. Personally I LOVE some of my teachers so I'm glad those ones are well paid.
Point is did you realize they were paid so highly?
They should get paid more with all the bs they put up with from kids AND their parents.
65K not a lot in many cities, you'll be scraping by rent for life unless you have a partner making 200k+
Teachers are so pathetic - flooding this thread crying about how hard it is to work with children. YOU CHOSE THAT CAREER. It's like an emergency room doctor complaining about blood. It's like a cop complaining about having to deal with criminals.
Teachers are such babies that they cry about the ONLY thing they are paid to do - work with kids.
I do know what I’m talking about. I completely get that dealing with bratty kids, unpleasant parents, and school politics is not easy.
However, compare that to the typical $200K per year salary job in a for profit corporate job. Crazy deadlines requiring nights, weekends, and very little paid time off. I get 20 days paid per year, but I typically will only use half of it because I will just be behind when I get back from vacation. While I can delegate, I’m a working executive that has to think big picture and roll up the sleeves and get in the weeds on a daily basis.
My personal experience may be unique, but the corporate world is pretty ruthless if you want to get to the top. Always someone younger and hungrier aiming for your position. It is likely difficult to be a good teacher. But there’s a lot of mediocre teachers out there. I do wish there was more incentive to be a good teacher other than a sense of pride and accomplishment.
I dont understand? Because a corporate job is much more difficult than teaching a $65,000 is a good salary? Your description of the corporate world and its ruthlessness presents a great case why you deserve a high salary but doesn't convince me that a $65,000 salary for teachers is very good. Maybe you're both underpaid.
I wouldn’t say it’s ruthlessness, I’d say the key to winning is working harder than the next guy or company to succeed. I don’t hate my job. I’ve had offers at other companies for a higher salary, but I value that hard work we all put in, including employees making $65K.
I also never said teachers were overpaid, just that it seems somewhat fair for an average teacher working 9 months per year. Again, teachers that go above and beyond should have the ability to make more, but it just isn’t reality in the public school system.
I dont understand? Because a corporate job is much more difficult than teaching a $65,000 is a good salary? Your description of the corporate world and its ruthlessness presents a great case why you deserve a high salary but doesn't convince me that a $65,000 salary for teachers is very good. Maybe you're both underpaid.
I wouldn’t say it’s ruthlessness, I’d say the key to winning is working harder than the next guy or company to succeed. I don’t hate my job. I’ve had offers at other companies for a higher salary, but I value that hard work we all put in, including employees making $65K.
I also never said teachers were overpaid, just that it seems somewhat fair for an average teacher working 9 months per year. Again, teachers that go above and beyond should have the ability to make more, but it just isn’t reality in the public school system.
Working 9 months a year is not a reality, either. It is ten months.
I'm one of these guys with a $200k corporate job in a multi-billion organization and I think your commentary around corporate America seems to stem from movies in the 80s and 90s. I don't even feel like I work, because it's a passion. The con is that I am never off, meaning my brain is always solving problems about work, thinking about how to make improvements, and always analyzing what's next and studying consumer behavior. However, technically I "work" close to 30 hours/week and have been working from home since March 2020.
I actually live with a teacher who makes $85k/Masters equivalency, over 20+ years of service. I cannot compete with summers off, but while she is driving/starting work, I'm able to run for an hour as corporate world doesn't start until 9am. The good news for our family is that I can take up to 120hrs of PTO consecutively, so we take a 2+ week trip to Europe every summer with the kids.
Make of it what you will. I believe I am underpaid because I generate close to $500M in revenues for a company. My wife actually finally feels well compensated at $85K after spending years in the $50s.