Cain wasn't blaming anyone when she stepped to the line in the world championship final in Moscow, or kicked the last 300 to win 3000m gold v Kenya and Ethiopia in Eugene.
just checked the results page of that 1500m us championship race and lol she raced slow people... the top american 1500m runners wasnt even in the race
also what gold are you talking about beating kenya/??? you mean the JUNIORS ??coz thats the only WIN she has
Well, you can only race who shows up. It's also tuff making comps against other periods as things change, but making a world/Olympic final generally means you were pretty good.
World youth/jr's generally are a big deal for us in sprints, hurdles, throws, jumps - that's where many of our future Olympic medal winners come from. They get exposed to international travel, serious coaching and commitment needed to excel. In distance not so much cause we get beat. I'll have to do some research, but I think Cain's 3000m gold is the only us gold in a distance event in over 50 years!
You should know by now I'm a huge Touhy fan occasionally playing devil's advocate. When she actually goes out and runs 4:03 (real soon!), I'll be chirping. When she wins a US title, or makes a global final, I'll be cheering. The ship has already sailed though on high school Cain v Tuohy.
Not quite true. although she won the 3000m, she was avoiding the 800m (Wambui, DSD who was 3rd in 2016) as 1.59.5 runner from a year earlier, and 1500m (Tsegay and Saeyum) - Ephraimson and Cranny ran the 1500 for the US in 2014.
Never really understood why Alberto took her away from the 800/1500m. She was a finalist (9th) in the 2013 World Snr 1500m. Perhaps that was Nike wanting a gold medal in Eugene (site of the meet). I would have kept her running 800's until she no longer improved, along with the 1500m. I saw no reason for her to even run a 5000m (15.45) at that point in her career. Maybe that is why her career stalled. Having said that, Gabriela Stafford was also in that 3000 (9.14 to Cain's 8.58) placing 9th. With perhaps better (certainly different) coaching, she has gone on to run 1.58.7 and 3.56.
Thanks for this. Like old days on LRC. I didn't think they really got away from 1500m. The one off 15:45 5k was just to get a us qualifier - to have options? The 3k probably as you laid out was calculated as best to get win. In classic Salazar fashion, he had Mary take the Greyhound bus to world jr's in a solo operation.
You are right about the 800, the old you tube hs 800 vids of Cain are just breathtaking. Given that 1:58 was relevant for so long, and the 800 would have matched up w/ 'a larger frame', it might have prolonged her racing.
Everyone and I mean everyone, believes the Cain range stopped at 1 mile, 2 miles etc. I'm willing to stretch it to 5k, how?
Laura Muir, Elle Purrier have fast 5k PRs but are still really 1500m runners/ milers. In the same vein, I would guess Cain would have developed a fast 5k too, but I don't think it would have been her top event.
Just a discussion of 'range' not necessarily where best. Hell, Purrier made world team at 5000m, earned her only global medal so far at 3000m indoor, and even won an NCAA steeplechase, yet we define her as a miler. (she can even milk cows and birth children)
My point was that it's hard to say Cain didn't have hs range to 5k, when her last 2 data points are #4 all time track 5k and a second place at nxn xc.
People will argue that Femke Bol/Syd have range to 800 w no data. Or that Whitaker has xc range due Foot Locker qualifying, or Mu mile range behind a strong dnf. Clearly the Cain 5k data points are solid and factual.
Obviously tens of thousands of high school girls have run a 5000 but only the 3 best ever are above average. 4th or worse means you aren't good enough to toe the line.
Not true. Tuohy took down many of Cain’s records, like the mile, 3Ki and 2 mile records. Additionally, she was unbeaten in her last years in XC and broke numerous course records. At the end of their HS careers Tuohy’s was unmatched by Cain nor any recent HS talent. Cain was superior in 1K and lower distances. In Tuohy’s Last XC race, this time against 100+ pro’s at Lehigh, I personally witnessed her come in 2nd in a race where Cain came in 33rd. Tuohy flat out was the superior distance runner. This is verifiable and we should stop distorting the truth.
Again you are the one distorting the truth. Cain was much, much faster than Tuohy as a high schooler. Cain 1:59 v Touhy 2:09, Cain 4:04 v Touhy 4:14, Cain 4:24 v Touhy 4:33, Cain 8:58 v Touhy 9:01, even at 5k it's close Touhy 15:37 v Cain 15:45 w/ both only running once in HS career. In xc Touhy has 3 x nxn, but Cain was no slouch finishing 2nd to Sarah Baxter in 2012 nxn as a Jr and skipping Sr yr.
On the national/international scene, there's no comparison. Cain won 2 US titles and made a world championship against adult women! Touhy as a collegian so far was 10th in 5k. Cain won gold at world Jr 3000 against the africans! and placed 6th in 1500m. Touhy never tried out for a US Jr team.
There's a tendency to belittle Cain here at LRC, but Touhy, as good as she is, may never win a US title or make a world/Olympic final. Cain did that in high school!
In the Lehigh club xc race you like to mention, kt was a senior just one week after nxn #3 and Cain was beginning a comeback from injury/abuse, so not much of a race. Although there are a few 'pros' at club xc, the real pro xc race is the usatf xc held every January.
It's nice that you support kt, but please don't make stuff up. The run up to 2024 will be interesting, but we have a way to go to catch Mary Cain.
Another bunch of s**t from the leading troll here. Comparing Cain’s best pro post HS numbers to Tuohy’s HS numbers is just how your distortions plays with the truth. KT still holds the record for indoor 3K @ 9:01 to this date. Get real! Cain is an outstanding sprinter and had superior 1K and under records. Her 800 PR is truly what she should be remembered for. KT very rarely ran the 800. I don’t know why since her 2:09 seems to have come in her sophomore or Junior year and I don’t believe she was ever tested for her speed thereafter. Watching Cain’s turnover in her specialty was indeed eye opening. KT didn’t take down every Cain distance record but took down quite a few before COVID interfered with her Senior year. The record shows Tuohy the better HS distance runner. We don’t know how she would have stood up to international competition. COVID may have played a role.
What you say about the XC test that I witnessed where Tuohy finished 2nd vs. Cain’s 33rd was indeed a test of Cain’s comeback from injury but even at her best there’s no way she would have beaten KT on that day. It was a wet/muddy day and one that those who love running XC revel in. Yes, indeed Tuohy had just won her 3rd NXN nationals in a row a week prior. Though she wasn’t at her best on that historic win I don’t think that only 1 week later she was racing at her very best either. It was her first test at the 6K distance and there were more than ‘a few pro’s’ in the race. The winner Aisling Cuffe was an accomplished 26 year old professional with solid Stanford All American credentials. She won by only 4 seconds (20:07 vs 20:11). I can investigate the other professionals and their credentials that Tuohy beat that day but you could do the same. It was a solid performance for a HS phenom and helped in building her reputation as she was deciding about her future. She’s not afraid to lose when running against real competition.
This post was edited 19 minutes after it was posted.
2930,1410, 412, 352, 157 lifetime prs... Also set the American Marathon record for women...
Sounds like ill-hidden sarcasm. Her best is still to come. Whether that leads to attacking select world records, most won’t be surprised. I am sure that more college records will come down and later another crop of American Records. If world records will be within reach in the future will depend on uncovering those records that should be disqualified if broken by individuals under the influence of PED’s. There’s one ridiculous 400m record held by an East German runner during an era when the entire team was pushed into the use of PED’s and illegal procedures like blood doping.
I think Tuohy last ran the 800m as a high school freshman. And yes she was a better overall high school runner than Cain was. Just greater natural talent. This comparison is especially annoying because Tuohy did everything to avoid what happened to Cain.
Cain was a prodigious talent, but it all flamed out. Cain's truly outstanding time was in the 800m. If things had gone differently and if better choices had been made, who knows what could have been.
She's been setting records since the 7th grade and has continued through college on the contrary im being serious...
I think she will come close to all the current world records from the 1500 through the 10K
And then of course marathon later in her career
I think 157 the same as hissan is pretty reasonable... Whether she will devote enough time to actually do it is a question... but the potential is there...
I don't think enough people realize how good a 8:35 3K is for a 20-year-old woman... It's number 38 on the all-time list and it's pretty close to an age group world record...
If she got in a fast race she could run a 1445 so I don't think improving another 35 seconds over the next 10 years is out of the question
She's been setting records since the 7th grade and has continued through college on the contrary im being serious...
I think she will come close to all the current world records from the 1500 through the 10K
And then of course marathon later in her career
I think 157 the same as hissan is pretty reasonable... Whether she will devote enough time to actually do it is a question... but the potential is there...
I don't think enough people realize how good a 8:35 3K is for a 20-year-old woman... It's number 38 on the all-time list and it's pretty close to an age group world record...
If she got in a fast race she could run a 1445 so I don't think improving another 35 seconds over the next 10 years is out of the question
Ok, didn’t realize that you were serious.
Tuohy’s 8:35 would have won the European indoor Championships this year. Not by more than 1 second but a win non-the-less. It was won by the top German professional. The great Konstanze Klosterhalfen was second. She frequently leads Diamond League races. So those clowns that claim Tuohy isn’t world class don’t know what they’re talking about. So we can conclude that Tuohy would be competitive in Diamond League races, which is decidedly ‘world-class’.
She isn't world class. Fans like you really give her a bad name when you make statements like that. She is about a 4:04/14:50 runner right now and that is giving her a huge PR in the 5000 which her fans would shout down if I did for any other college runner.
She isn't world class. Fans like you really give her a bad name when you make statements like that. She is about a 4:04/14:50 runner right now and that is giving her a huge PR in the 5000 which her fans would shout down if I did for any other college runner.
You again? Well I know this: somewhere a bridge is missing a troll and a village is missing an idiot.
Running fans are very short sighted. Always ready to crown royalty based on last great run performance. Many layers and seasons to the sport. It’s surges in times and plateaus, trial and error. She’ll figure it out.
40-45 mpw as a freshman, maybe more, broke (stress fracture) navicular bone junior (?) year having run through it for a bit, was put on swim team and then did cycle work as well during recovery. Started eliptical during covid.
40-45 mpw as a freshman, maybe more, broke (stress fracture) navicular bone junior (?) year having run through it for a bit, was put on swim team and then did cycle work as well during recovery. Started eliptical during covid.
some sort of shin injury junior year, finished season with a 5:09 mile
40-45 mpw as a freshman, maybe more, broke (stress fracture) navicular bone junior (?) year having run through it for a bit, was put on swim team and then did cycle work as well during recovery. Started eliptical during covid.
some sort of shin injury junior year, finished season with a 5:09 mile
