But what was the sentiment with tour de France riders in the doping haven era? It appears they welcomed dopers in to their teams with open arms. Again, the culture manifests itself. Im not saying all of BTC is dirty because each person does act on their own, but track has potentially developed a culture similar to the TDF where the drugs are such a substantial advantage that they become "justified" because "everyone's doing it" or the clean ones are tired of getting beat by guy's that shouldn't be beating them and join in on the fracas.
They improve far more than ALL other professional and collegiate groups, who are led by the best coaches in the world. Only Scott Simmons group is even close.
Just a reminder that America is not the world, and BTC has precisely zero global gold medals to its name. It's the best group in the US, that's as much as you can conclude
Judging the group solely in gold medals is a bit extreme. They have several global medals that aren’t gold. Infield bronze in the 10,000m in 2015
Jager silver in 2016
Cragg Bronze 2017
Frerichs Silver 2017
Ahmed Bronze 2019
Ahmed and Frerichs silver 2021
Only one U.S. group has done better than they have a very shady coach that is now banned (albeit, not for drugs but there is significant suspicion around them). Obvious argument here is that BTC has a positive test and Oregon Project did not. Jerry is arguably more shady.
They improve far more than ALL other professional and collegiate groups, who are led by the best coaches in the world. Only Scott Simmons group is even close.
Just a reminder that America is not the world, and BTC has precisely zero global gold medals to its name. It's the best group in the US, that's as much as you can conclude
Interesting point. To be that fast and that close to indoor world record, yet you get the feeling this guy will not win a diamond league or ever be more than an also ran in an Olympic final. yet so close to lagats times who in his prime was a real threat in any international final.
After coaching high school for many years I came to the conclusion that many college, pro coaches are over rated.
I had a former athlete who went D1 and then pro tell me that I was the best coach he ever had.
Most of the others just drove athletes into the ground and hoped they survived. He also said that many were set in their ways and treated everyone the same and wouldn't change.
Yeah I'm not sure why this is so hard to understand. Yeah people can scream and whine about doping, etc, etc but you'd have to be naive to think that if BTC is doping then nobody else is. Regardless, they are still currently crushing the competition.
The truth is that this is the highest quality training group ever assembled.
It is and they train hard and their window is not very big. If injuries creep up then the window becomes even smaller. The body can only take so much so let’s see what they can accomplish these next 2-3 years, hopefully injury free. After then, they’ll keep putting in the same volume or more for a smaller ROI.
Their secret is that they know the location of a food truck that sells burritos with uncastrated boar offal.
Shelby was the sacrificial piglet, er, lamb, that took one for the team so that location wouldn't be reveled - aka "letting the the pig out of the barn," if you will.
You know absolutely nothing, posting the same nonsense ad infinitum. Given the current state of SH's case, you can rightly have reservations regarding her status, but to go on and on about other members of the team, is an insult to those athletes and the BTC coaches. Jerry Schumacher is a talented coach, working with some of the world's best athletes. Period. I look forward to the day when SH is exonerated and perhaps then you will STFU.
Yes, be mad at me, not the coach who salted the earth feeding us (you!) a bunch of laughably outrageous lies about their cheating athlete, and who not only will not apologize for those lies, but still associates with the dope, thus completely justifying the scrutiny and suspicion over the rest of his training group.
After witnessing the barrage of lightning fast times this past weekend by the Bowerman Track Club I have been left with my jaw on the floor wondering how?
But looking back further into the past few years it has been clear that what happened this past weekend was actually par for the course for this elite group. Fisher's 12:53 was no doubt a huge PR, but it probably lines up very closely with his 5th place finish in the 10,000m in Tokyo. The other achievements are also nothing out of the ordinary for this group or these athletes.
With all that said, I think we can conclude:
1. It wasn't primarily the track surface
2. It wasn't primarily the shoe tech
3. It wasn't primarily the talent of the athletes
The consistent dominance of BTC over other American groups is most likely attributed to knowledge. The secret isn't "there is no secret" as Parker wrote all those years ago. BTC has a secret. Whether its related to training, nutrition, pharmaceuticals (legal type), or other reasons. There is clearly a gap in this groups ability to develop and sustain top talent that is unparalleled in the running community.
I think that some them use banned substances. This is the secret and now we have proof that is largely being ignored. If this statement is wrong, then most of the team would be speaking against Shelby and Jerry.
I find Fisher's drastic improvement since last summer to be very suspicious. He has been aided by some substance. Now Grant is better than Mo Ahmed? Cmon man.
Yes, be mad at me, not the coach who salted the earth feeding us (you!) a bunch of laughably outrageous lies about their cheating athlete, and who not only will not apologize for those lies, but still associates with the dope, thus completely justifying the scrutiny and suspicion over the rest of his training group.
I agree. Jerry's knows about steroids and his statement was false. He should be banned from the sport.
Yeah I'm not sure why this is so hard to understand. Yeah people can scream and whine about doping, etc, etc but you'd have to be naive to think that if BTC is doping then nobody else is. Regardless, they are still currently crushing the competition.
The truth is that this is the highest quality training group ever assembled.
I find Fisher's drastic improvement since last summer to be very suspicious. He has been aided by some substance. Now Grant is better than Mo Ahmed? Cmon man.
Fisher came a close 5th in the Olympic 10,000 last summer. how 'slow' would you expect his indoor 5000 6 months later for you not to consider it a 'suspicious.... drastic improvement'?
Their secret is that they know the location of a food truck that sells burritos with uncastrated boar offal.
Shelby was the sacrificial piglet, er, lamb, that took one for the team so that location wouldn't be reveled - aka "letting the the pig out of the barn," if you will.
You know absolutely nothing, posting the same nonsense ad infinitum. Given the current state of SH's case, you can rightly have reservations regarding her status, but to go on and on about other members of the team, is an insult to those athletes and the BTC coaches. Jerry Schumacher is a talented coach, working with some of the world's best athletes. Period. I look forward to the day when SH is exonerated and perhaps then you will STFU.
What color kool aid are you drinking? I kind of want some so I have less of a pessimistic outlook on these performances!
Their secret is getting the top talent in the world and training like monsters year round.
Ding ding ding! We haaaaave a winnerrrrrrr!
Unfortunately rational and logical thought are unwelcome on letsrun. Please take your reasonable takes over to Reddit where they care more about distance running and less about conspiracy theories.
I find Fisher's drastic improvement since last summer to be very suspicious. He has been aided by some substance. Now Grant is better than Mo Ahmed? Cmon man.
Fisher came a close 5th in the Olympic 10,000 last summer. how 'slow' would you expect his indoor 5000 6 months later for you not to consider it a 'suspicious.... drastic improvement'?
....Not to mention Fisher's progression from HS junior through Stanford and onto pros has been a continual improving progression. When you look at all the others he beat and their incredible times, Grant Fisher's performance at BU is not at all surprising in comparrison. He was beating Mantz and McGorty in HS and NCAA and now pros. ....Despite being younger!
As far as beating Ahmed....not sure that happens every time out and probably goes the other way this summer, but Fisher has demonstratably more speed at the end after blazing that 4:57 2k. That's world class
They improve far more than ALL other professional and collegiate groups, who are led by the best coaches in the world. Only Scott Simmons group is even close.
Just a reminder that America is not the world, and BTC has precisely zero global gold medals to its name. It's the best group in the US, that's as much as you can conclude
You are just flat out, wrong. Great homework dude.
Just a reminder that America is not the world, and BTC has precisely zero global gold medals to its name. It's the best group in the US, that's as much as you can conclude
Judging the group solely in gold medals is a bit extreme. They have several global medals that aren’t gold. Infield bronze in the 10,000m in 2015
Jager silver in 2016
Cragg Bronze 2017
Frerichs Silver 2017
Ahmed Bronze 2019
Ahmed and Frerichs silver 2021
Only one U.S. group has done better than they have a very shady coach that is now banned (albeit, not for drugs but there is significant suspicion around them). Obvious argument here is that BTC has a positive test and Oregon Project did not. Jerry is arguably more shady.
Don't get me wrong, the group has done well over the years, just when you're comparing BTC to groups run by "the best coaches in the world" I instantly think about those who coached athletes to gold medals. BTC have done fine
Just a reminder that America is not the world, and BTC has precisely zero global gold medals to its name. It's the best group in the US, that's as much as you can conclude
Interesting point. To be that fast and that close to indoor world record, yet you get the feeling this guy will not win a diamond league or ever be more than an also ran in an Olympic final. yet so close to lagats times who in his prime was a real threat in any international final.
Honestly, if they pick the right race, Fisher could win a DL. Katir won Gateshead last year. But no, I don't think Fisher can win a race that has any of the following in it: Barega, Kiplimo, Cheptegei, Ingebrigtsen, Aregawi, and maybe Katir if he recovers his early-2021 form.
I actually think it's more likely that he never breaks 13 again than he finishes top-3 in a global champs