Molly Seidel: "[Americans] gonna get our asses handed to us nine times outta ten, if the course is fast."

slaaa wrote:

CU Buff wrote:

So avoid flat, fast, rabbited races. Do races with tough conditions and preferably without a rabbit. Americans might not be faster than Kenyans but they're tougher. A kid from Wisconsin is much more hardened to tough conditions than a kid from Eldoret (which has near perfect climate year round).

I hope this is sarcasm. Americans arent tougher. But tough conditions up the randomness of events and in small fields that can make a difference. Some people will always have bad days. Throw in a few more have weather issues and you end up with a chance for slowwe runners to be competitive.

Yeah, if the field is deep with top Africans then Americans have almost zero chance of winning regardless of the course.

In the olympics, with much smaller representation from the best African nations, the rest of a world has a chance especially if the Ethiopians and Kenyans are aggressive… unless there’s a Sammy or Kipchoge in the field and then back to zero chance

runne. wrote:

The argument that Kenyans and Ethiopians are less competitive in bad weather, especially hot weather, sounds like random rambling. Maybe she meant she hurts less in bad weather but that’s not what she said.

I think the notion of how suffering plays out in bad weather is much more individual (as opposed to based on nationality), and much more about mindset.

Here's how I've come to think of it. When there is external discomfort during a race (such as rain/cold, heat/humidity, etc), it can either layer on top of the discomfort already inherent in racing, or it can be right next to the discomfort of racing (or even distract from it!).

Using myself as an example, a disproportionate number of my best racing performances have come in the rain/cold, and when I replay the experiences in my mind, I feel like the discomfort from the conditions distracted me from the discomfort of racing, so I was able to perform really well relative to my competition. However, any time I have raced in the heat, it has been a different story. When I replay those races in my mind, the discomfort from the heat totally stacks on top of the discomfort of the race effort. Not only do I remember them as miserable experiences, but I performed poorly as well. Some of this could be physical adaptation/acclimatization, but I think how my mind dealt with the external discomfort of those two different situations played a huge role as well.

Molly is right. The Africans tend to be stupid/less aggressive when the conditions are bad (parachute jackets at Boston ‘18 in the rain/wind) or when their health is compromised (Mary Keitany holding back cause of period cramps at NYC ‘17).

By the way cross country is only 1/4 the distance of marathon- not apple to oranges comparison.

The Sammy Wanjiru’s of Kenya are rare.

What she is saying is that ALL runners are more prone to a bad day in extremes. That is especially magnified in championships when there are only three from each country. Yuki had little chance of winning Boston but when the noreaster hit it totally negated speed and prs. Agree with her and the stats prove she is right.

Can’t see any evidence East African’s don’t run well in poor weather.

It was very cold & wet for the 2020 London Marathon. An Ethiopian won the men’s race and a Kenyan the women’s.

And in 1992 in a freezing blizzard, I watched Radcliffe win the Wold XC.. The men’s race that day was won by Kenyan legend John Nguni, followed by another Kenyan and an Ethiopian.

Can East Africans excel in the cold - most definitely! The evidence is undeniable.

2018 boston

4thYearFreshman wrote:

jecht wrote:

Great article, thanks Rojo.

Interesting quote about how she got into running, not sure what she means about a quiet brain:

Seidel: Probably really bad ADHD [laughs]. But yeah, we had a bunch of land up behind our house. We would just play up there all the time and it had a mile loop trail around it. I would just run up there and we’d run in gym class and I just found that I really enjoyed it. And my brain was a little bit quieter when I did that and eventually I found that I was pretty good at it.

People with ADHD often describe their brain and loud to describe the overthinking or constant thoughts. She's basically saying she found when she was running that her ADHD was lesser

I find it hard to switch off, and going out an running a hard session, and focusing on nothing but running fast is a mental break for me, almost like meditation. I'll frequently do a long track-session and then realize I've had a whole hour where I thought about nothing else...my mind has been quite...So, I can relate.

Cavorty wrote:

4thYearFreshman wrote:

People with ADHD often describe their brain and loud to describe the overthinking or constant thoughts. She's basically saying she found when she was running that her ADHD was lesser

I find it hard to switch off, and going out an running a hard session, and focusing on nothing but running fast is a mental break for me, almost like meditation. I'll frequently do a long track-session and then realize I've had a whole hour where I thought about nothing else...my mind has been quite...So, I can relate.

Good post, Cavorty, and thanks to the posters upthread who clarified Molly's brain statement.

I don't think she will last. Too many injuries in college and too many other problems. She acts like a guy with that dirty mouth of hers.

A great interview and loved it. I have 2 burning questions that I would've asked. 1. How did you break ribs before NY marathon? 2. When racing why not take advantage of conserving some energy by running in the pack? I'm not suggesting for the entire race. But Molly doesn't run with the pack at all

the voice of truth wrote:

Can’t see any evidence East African’s don’t run well in poor weather.

[quote]Gwalkerruns wrote:

What she is saying is that ALL runners are more prone to a bad day in extremes.

The guy above you explained it. Nobody is saying that Americans are better than Africans at running in bad weather. What Molly was saying, and what is also undeniably correct, is that bad weather makes the race more random. The odds of any particular athlete having a bad day go up, which increases the odds that someone outside of the favorites will win or podium. We have basically the entire history of road racing to confirm this. Surprise winners are more likely in bad conditions. It doesn't mean that the favorites cease to be the favorites or that Africans are terrible at bad conditions.

I didn’t realize there were rules about how females are allowed to talk. I must have missed the email.

The greatest barrier for both US and European marathoners is that they don't get to the roads until they are past their physical peak. There might be a bunch of men with a theoretical ceiling of 2:05 or women with a ceiling of 2:20 but those are likely to be the very best talents, and they will spend their peak years on the track. For the most part, non-Africans go into the marathon in their 30s as a way to prolong their careers. Why should we expect elite athletes on the downslope of their career to be able to compete with elite African and Japanese talents in their 20s, which is their physical prime? I'd like to see some top tier talents specialize in the marathon sooner but that's just not the culture in the US and Europe, track is still the primary goal.

Completely agree with you about the honesty part.

Listen to interviews with ppl like Shalane, Coburn etc and you can never believe a word they say, its all cherry picked taking points.

I think the few American woman that compete with the East African crew are tougher. They are bringing a knife (altitude and maybe thyroid meds in some cases) to a gun fight (epo and T), so they are a self selected grittier group.