Jakob Ingebrigtsen - Long run is 60-70 minutes

HobbyJOGKO wrote:

He never runs more than 21 km or 13 miles.

Never run longer than 20 (his own words this year). Probably he does it in around 75min..

Probably the science behind long runs is weak. There is a strong tradition though for long runs, but...

If you plan on running long races it is specific training that you have to do. But if you race 10k or shorter, a long run is not specific. For Marathon it is very much specific.

Long runs will when the muscles fibres start to fatigue and get depleted from glukogen start to fire other muscle fibres like the faster ones. That is a good effect from long runs, but it will also happen in longer workouts.

One way of avoiding a long run day is actually to run some easy after a workout. Will give the same effect as the last part of a long run, but could save the time.

zvcxzcvx wrote:

You can't imagine any benefit of longer long runs but there is a substantial increase of both mitochondrial and capillary (density and function) development for runs of 90 minutes or longer.

Come on, are you neglecting the fact that he's running 100 miles per week? He's aerobic conditioning by 100 mpw is much higher than 60 mpw with longer long runs. You can't take one shown benefit of the long run and compare it to general high mileage.

zvcxzcvx wrote:

You can't imagine any benefit of longer long runs but there is a substantial increase of both mitochondrial and capillary (density and function) development for runs of 90 minutes or longer.

Jeezus freakin christ shut up with the bs.

Not the norm wrote:

Nick Willis ran longer than that, he has more global medals than Jakob and wasn't as big of a young talent.

This really isnt a strong argument

Nick Willis has an olympic silver, bronze and world bronze across his whole career. I'd say very good odds Ingebritsen beats that haul before his 24th birthday. He already had 2 x world top 5s and an Olympic Gold before he turned 21.

No need to run longer than 60-80 min if you don`t go for the half/marathon.

Silly argument i agree. Nick has a nice medal haul where he’s run down some guys at the end of the races. Jakob is competing at a different level, trying to win races on the circuit, not get 6th in Monaco and win small-time USA stuff. His training is at a higher level and his racing is a different level. He’s not going for longevity like Nick, and isn’t waiting until late 20s/early 30s to go to altitude or taking a full day off each week. Different philosophies, and kinda why Nick even broached the idea that Jakob’s career will be shorter because of how much commitment/work his training requires. They’re just different athletes and while one will try run 3:26 by age 23 the other was always going to max out at 3:29.

zvcxzcvx wrote:

20k in 70 minutes is pretty quick, 3:30 per kilometer or about 5:38 per mile. He runs easy runs around 3:50 if I understood the argument correctly in the new season. If he never runs more than 12.4M at a time, he certainly does doubles to get to 112 miles per week, as that is 16M per day. Since this is his job, he has plenty of time where he is not running. He can run 16M a day in 90 minutes. Then he can take another hour doing gym work, weights, plyos, abs, and he has a job that takes him 2 1/2 hours a day, leaving him a good 14 hours a day to text and scroll through social media.

In running there is plenty of time to run, but one cannot recover from that much. In triathlon it is different and that is why they use much more time for training. He recovers optimally between the workouts.

All other lower impact sports are different in that they train for longer.

Run6556 wrote:

zvcxzcvx wrote:

You can't imagine any benefit of longer long runs but there is a substantial increase of both mitochondrial and capillary (density and function) development for runs of 90 minutes or longer.

Come on, are you neglecting the fact that he's running 100 miles per week? He's aerobic conditioning by 100 mpw is much higher than 60 mpw with longer long runs. You can't take one shown benefit of the long run and compare it to general high mileage.

Not just 90+ long runs are good at building mithocondrial and capillary density. All the Ingebrigtsen brothers are examples of someone that have not employed long runs, but rather used controlled intervals and volume to get to a superb level. They all have high VO2 max, and Jakob is exceptional in having a high lactate threshold pace, something that probably is a trait for all great runners.

Not the norm wrote:

Nick Willis ran longer than that, he has more global medals than Jakob and wasn't as big of a young talent. I guarantee Kipchoge/Bekele/Farah you name it who were world champions at 5k all ran more than that.

I could agree that for 800 meters and maybe even 1500 meters you don't need more than 13 miles, but if you want to be the best 5k-10k version of yourself you should build up to more than a 13 mile long run. I'd say 15-18 is good for 5k/10k... Half marathon more like 20 mile long runs for the peak, and marathon more than 20 miles for the peak.

Another one who doesn´t understand. The high volume LT training days gives the same benefit as long runs.

Leave it the morons on Lets Run to criticize the training habits of a dude who'll still be faster than them when he's 80.

HobbyJOGKO wrote:

He never runs more than 21 km or 13 miles.

If he's running 21km in 60-70 min regularly than I'm super impressed.

old shoe wrote:

HobbyJOGKO wrote:

He never runs more than 21 km or 13 miles.

If he's running 21km in 60-70 min regularly than I'm super impressed.

In the series he was supposed to run at 4.00/km but Filip accused him of going 3.45/km, so he probably does the 20k in 75 to 80 mins.

long runs over rated wrote:

Sounds about right. It blows my mind that anyone runs longer than say 90 minutes unless training for a marathon.

Rosa Mota never ran longer than 90mins in training and had a marathon PB of 223 pb way back in 1985, long before super shoes. She ran them near full out mind you, De Castilla tried to run with her and though it was a crazy pace.

Empty miles are useless for him. He will at most go 5K. Better to save his energy to go faster.

For middle distance runner appropriate.

El Guerrouj also ran multiple times a week fast aerobic runs 50-60 min but lots of strength work.

But he would run those 50-60 min at around 2:55-3:05 x/km. El G by far the greatest middle distance runner, unlikely to see another athlete like him again.

John Scott wrote:

old shoe wrote:

If he's running 21km in 60-70 min regularly than I'm super impressed.

In the series he was supposed to run at 4.00/km but Filip accused him of going 3.45/km, so he probably does the 20k in 75 to 80 mins.

Runners always underestimate their time spent running, I dunno why.

Bill Rodgers said in his book "I never ran more than 2 hours per day," but then he also talks about running 170mpw, hmmm..

At the end of the day, why should you knock him for it? He's minutes faster than you and you won't beat him at any distance.

Just to respond to a certain strain of criticism in this thread:

1) you can suggest that something is a benefit without denying that other forms of training have any value;

2) you can suggest some change for his benefit without being an equivalent runner to him (his coach is a non-runner and who would meet the standard to coach him then? El G or Lagat? Maybe Tim Cheruiyot prior to 2021?) or even close;

3) you can reach an extraordinary level, as Jakob has, and still have room for improvement from new stimuli that you have not yet made use of at all.

fredgroup wrote:

Master Of Lolly wrote:

Ingebrigtsen is also an aspiring 5000m and 10k XC specialist, therefore high mileage.

I doubt that Makhloufi was running 180km a week. And Makhloufi in his prime > Jakob Ingebrigtsen.

Dang I forgot about mak, he definitely could have steamrolled Jakob in his prime..

Ha, I don't know about steamrolled but would have maybe slightly edged him out. His prime was like one Summer too.