Sophomore HS Runner: Looking to Improve My Distance Running

Don't worry about diet, strength, core, etc, etc. until you are running. To be better at running you need to run. So work on getting out 6 days per week for runs and start there. Set goals for yourself and build up your weekly mileage slowly.

Convince your parents that track is best for you and will make you more well rounded when looking for colleges. It's not true but you need to run track. You have a bit of a motivation issue where I can't see you running on your own this track season. You're best off if you're able to join the team

coachy wrote:

Don't worry about diet, strength, core, etc, etc. until you are running. To be better at running you need to run. So work on getting out 6 days per week for runs and start there. Set goals for yourself and build up your weekly mileage slowly.

I've heard that setting unrealistic goals is what champions do. Not sure if that's just a saying or if it actually works. Should I set a super unrealistic goal like sub 18:30 or 19 5K or something more realistic like sub 20? Also, what does building up weekly mileage look like? Should I just do all easy runs? Should I add long runs? What mileage should I start at?

Set some big goals and some reachable goals that you can hit soon as well.

Weekly mileage is a good goal to start with. If you aren't running at all right now then I would start with like 20 miles per week. If you are OK with that then just add 5 miles per week for a few weeks and see how you are doing. If you get a few weeks in and you are starting to get board then add in some workouts to spice it up. Joining the track team would help.

hunter wheres the coke wrote:

Convince your parents that track is best for you and will make you more well rounded when looking for colleges. It's not true but you need to run track. You have a bit of a motivation issue where I can't see you running on your own this track season. You're best off if you're able to join the team

Completely agree that running on my own will suck and I am going to lose motivation. I will try my best to join the track team, but I don't think my parents will buy the more well rounded for college persuasion. In the meantime, until track season at least, how can I stay motivated? Thanks

I disagree with the sentiment expressed above. I ran all through high school and was decent. I didn't run mid-distance events like many teenagers, but i was the best actual long-distance runner at my school. There were several guys trying to be, at a big school (close to 3000) in a pretty big running city. This was back when kids commonly ran distance events. So, I have some idea of where you are mentally and such. I don't know exactly what you're feeling, but I was teying to be a good runner at your age myself.

I say don't join the track team. I didn't. My training group didn't. If I think of the 5 guys I'm aware of who had run a marathon by Sophmore year, I don't think any of then did. At least some of the other teenagers we saw at races must not have either. If you're at a marathon on a Saturday in March and finishing ahead of me (that means you actually trained for it) you probably aren't on 'the team'.

If you the type who can train on your own, or if you have a group to run with, I can't see what the school offers you. They won't encourage anything that could reasonably be called 'distance'. You will be told to run sprints and mid-D events. The HS runners who post here have 400 PRs. This is great if you're good at sprints and hoping to get better. If you're not, but hoping to improve at your best events - and they are long - anything invloving starting blocks is a waste of time.

By the way, for those who say that avoiding the official school team and competing against runners in their 20s and 30s is a dodging competition, i could run a marathon faster than you do 5k, and that wouldn't get me into the top-3 in my age group. Hey. I was nothing special, but I would have been a lot worse if I'd been listening to some football coach who picked up T&F for an easy after-school Spring gig.

Big goals: Sub 5:30 mile and sub 18:30 5K by end of track and XC seasons respectively

Small goals: run at least 6 days/wk from now until end of XC season (excluding small break between track and XC)

Build up to at least 50 (maybe 60) mpw during XC summer training

Letter in cross country (my team needs 5 varsity points to letter, 1 for 10th on team 2 for 9th on team and so on; my team isn't super competitive, the best runner runs about a 18 minutes and will probably break 18 next year but I am still very far behind)

Be named team captain for next year (everyone on the team likes me and thinks I will be one of 4 or 5 team captains next year but if I improve I can almost guarantee it)

How do those look?

Also, how would a 20 mile week like? Should I add a long run? Should I do any doubles on weekends? Also, what kinds of workouts should I add: tempos or track workouts? What if I am feeling tired or worn down, how should I proceed with mileage?

PS: sorry for all the questions, I am really new with this so I am just confused on how to proceed

So if I shouldn't run track, then what should I do and how should I structure my training to have a better XC season?

Many of us message board posters can provide good guidance and tips with regards to training at your level, but there is only so much we can do from behind our keyboards when it comes to motivation and inspiration. At the end of the day, that drive has to come from within. You may need to reflect and ask yourself: why do you run?

Is it for general fitness and health?

Is it to get in shape for another sport?

To get outside?

To get into college?

To challenge yourself, see improvement, enjoy the process of training and find your best self?

To compete and beat others?

To feel part of a team and find community/culture?

To travel through and explore nature and the outdoors?

Is it that you simply enjoy the pure motion of putting one foot in front of the other?

Is it for the feeling you get after a run?

To impress someone?

The important thing to remember is that all of these reasons are valid, and there are a million others to think of. Seriously, lots of elite runners for into the sport just because they joined the track team in romantic pursuit of another person, which is kinda funny. For those runners, that initial singular reason to run cascaded into plenty of others. Some people have just one reason that always gets them out the door, and some people are constantly realizing more reasons why they run. But maybe you could write down your reasons and put them somewhere.

This may help you deal with lulls in motivation by making you aware of why they happen. For example, it seems you have a pattern of not following through with training when your friends/teammates aren't running with you in the off-season. This would suggest that a big reason why you run is for the company of your friends and the fun of training together. Am I close to the mark here? If this is the only reason, it will fall short when you are alone. So you need to come up with a reason for running that is not dependent on other people being there. A reason that gets you out the door when you are not at the convenience of being at practice in the middle of the season.

As for training, the good thing is it is really simple at your level: you need to run more, and you need to run more consistently. To build mileage, try to gradually increase for a few weeks, maybe 15, 20, 25 miles, then take a down week where you run less and your legs feel a little fresher. You could do some speedier stuff that week. Then build a little more for the next few weeks, and see if you can get into the 30s comfortably. But keep taking down weeks, no matter how good you feel. I have found that is the best way to sustainably build mileage at your level. No need for doubles.

Set goals for yourself- ones that are attainable in the near future as well as ones that are far out. But it is also important to set goals that are NOT related to time. Time doesn't mean anything in the sport of XC. Also, time goals far too easily set people up for disappointment. Set a process-oriented goal, like "stay mentally engaged for the whole race". Set goals that aren't relate to races, like "put together 8 solid weeks of training".

Do not let running and academics blend together too much. What I mean by that is you should set boundaries for yourself in what you focus on throughout a day. Practice is your stress-free place, where you unplug from your workload at school, and you don't think/talk about academics too much. Afterwards when you are doing schoolwork, do not dwell too much on running. You already put in the work and made the improvement earlier at practice. Maybe this becomes a consistent reason why you run- to take a productive and rejuvenating break from the monotony of homework.

Core is a small issue here. It's important to do it, and you should ask your coach for core circuits, but you should first direct your energy towards the bigger picture issues you're dealing with. Lastly, don't go on a diet unless a registered dietitian tells you to. Coaches, peers, letsrun posters, etc. Should not be telling you what to eat. Just eat until you're full and then eat again when you're hungry. You might get more hungry more often when you increase mileage. Listen to your body.

20 miles is just getting out the door to get you started. So like 5 days of 4 miles each to get it started. Then a 25 mile week, then a 30 mile week.

Those are some good goals listed above. Short term and long term goals are both needed. So I would have something you can accomplish in the next month, it doesn't have to be a race time.

Being on the track team can help you stay motivated and also help you get faster and work towards your goals.

I'm not gonna quote the post because that was really long but thank you so much. This is a huge help.

In terms of why I run, you're right about my friends not running with me. They all do other sports or don't train at all, so I struggle to stay focused in training. I would also like to add these reasons in my training tho:

"To challenge yourself, see improvement, enjoy the process of training and find your best self?

To compete and beat others?

To impress someone?"

Obviously I want to see improvement by challenging myself to be the best that I can be. I need to figure out how to enjoy the process of training. I also do want to be competitive on my team and in meets and not be bottom 15-25% in every single race. I think that I want to impress my teammates, family, and coach. Most of all my father and brother though. My brother is a senior captain on the team (he's a junior rn) and has a sophomore year PR of 18:52. He trained really hard the summer going into his sophomore year and has since regressed, only running a 19:3x SR this year (I say only but I would love this time). My father doesn't think that I should do cross country or track anymore and that I am not naturally suited for it, and my brother always laughs that I am terrible at XC. I want to get better and prove them wrong.

Thank you for all the advice again. I will try to implement this and will keep it in mind

What should training look like? More mileage. My peers and I were 60+ at your age. Don't try to get there too soon, but do more than you are. Easy days easy - not pushing it at all. Hard days should be less than half of them. Always 1 easy in between, often 2. If the day was particularly long and/or hard, 2 easy after for sure. Alternate types of stress.

A long run. I'm hoping you can do more than 10 now. Eventually (and hopefully) they could get closer to 20 than 10. The length is what makes it hard. Then 1-2 easy days.

Strides/diagonals/sprints. This is a very different stimulus. I do them on a very gradual downhill. A bike could do it wothout pedalling but wouldn't even think about the brakes. I go diafonal on a soccer field when not at home. I started with 12. I now do 18 on my usual course, 20+ on the soccer field. Alactic. This means a very long recovery. I go all the way back to the start slowly. To me, alactic also means they're short enough not to accumulate lactate nor be stressful on the cardiovascular system. It is a neuro-muscular workout. 20 seconds per rep is good. I do more like 25 now. You can feel if they're too long. A few miles before then after. 1 easy day.

Tempo. This is shorter but faster than a long run. Example: 3 miles easy, 3 miles hard (this can work it's way to 6), 3 easy again. The hard should be right at the border of aerobic and anaerobic. Technical sounding, but remarkably easy to feel. 1-2 easy days.

Hill sprints. Short, steep, full recovery. Find one that would be hard to ride a bike up. Full speed for 10-13 seconds. Walk down; take your time. Muscular workout (not hard to breathe); think of it like weight lifting. I started with 12 now I do 26. A few miles becore and after. 1 easy day.

I start with sequence for pure base. By that I mean you're not really ready for a race. You will get fit, and could run a reasonable race, especially a medium distance such as 5 mile or 10k.

Add hill repeats into the rotation. Longer and less steep than the pure sprint type. Very aerobic/anaerobic. You will breathe hard. I like 1 minute - 1:30. I like 2:30 - 3 minute even better. The way I have done these lately is 6 times a 3 minute hill. Jog down slow. Then run over to a 1 minute hill that is steeper. 10 of those. A few miles before then after. Next: 1-2 easy days.

You can add something like mile repeats into the rotation, then quarters. I wouldn't do a whole lot of this kind of thing for a real long time straight. However, if you cycle through a lot of workouts like I suggest (and do myself) you'll get to some of these every couple weeks or so. In that case, they won't necessarily 'make you peak' or 'burn you out' in a short period of time.

The main one not mentioned yet that I like to add combines the long and tempo. This is sorf of like a 15k-half marathon time trial. Probably 80% of the subjective effort of a race but probably around 90% or more of actual race pace. (That does not feel truly all-out.) Example: 2 mile warm-up. Hard 11. Cool-down 2 more. 15 miles total.

This is the kind of thing to start with. Try to make easy easy, in-between days truly easy. Also try to follow workouts with another that's a really different type of stress. Something long then something speed oriented. Something very aerobic and cardiovascular then something muscular. After several months, race a 10k if you can get to a decent, compstitive road race.

Ask questions of the Board as neccesary and Good Luck!

I can't do long runs of 10 miles, like I said my PR is 21:46 and I have been running 15-25 mpw for the past two seasons. My longest run ever is 8 miles my freshman year but I did that at a 10:23 pace. When in shape, I can comfortable do 6 mile runs, and I can do 7 mile runs with some difficulty. How should I build up long runs? I only have one hill by my house that's not really super big but I think will do. Once I go up the hill I have to turn around almost right away (no loop or anything) because otherwise I will run into the trees/backyard of some neighbors. Also, what do you mean by sequence for pure base? For the strides, I probably don't have time to do more than 8-10 at most daily. What would the length of the strides be? Can you give an example week of base building training?

Thanks

OK, by 'base' I mean increasing general fitness as opposed to getting ready to race. Many have said this:

There are 2 kinds of training. That which gets you ready to race, that's one kind. The other is training which gets you in good enough shape for that. The second I mentioned is 'base training', although it is the first chronologically or sequentially. So if I say I'm doing 'pure base' for two months I will be training in such a way that I could keep up a similar schedule forever. I haven't ramped it up so hard that I only could handle 2 months, I'm just doing that long because I'll transition into something else after.

It also means that hard intervals and other very hard workouts will not be done or done very occasionally. Even the fastest, hardest tempo work would be done sparingly. But what you CAN do without burning out or needing a big break afterward is a lot of relatively slow running - not the pace you're trying to run for 5k or another short race like a mile - and a small amount of running at full speed.

Here's what I regularly do if when I'm in a pure base sequence:

Hilly 16-20 miler. This is a reasonably comfortable pace the whole way.

3 easy days.

Short steep (~13 seconds) hill sprints. I do 20 or more, close to all-out, but I've warmed up really well with several miles.

3 easy days.

Hard timed run of 8-13 miles. A few miles before/after make it longer.

3 easy days.

Slightly downhill sprints/strides (~26 seconds). I do 15 or more, pretty close to as fast as I can go, after several mile warm-up.

3 easy days.

Let me point out something crucial: I need 3 easy days between anything hard because of age. I figured out my 3-day-rule at around 50. This is a schedule just for me (or I suppose, anyone middle-aged).

I didn't need that much recovery at your age. In fact, I would try 2 days after the two long runs and 1 after the two sprint days. Start with something like that. Here's an example you can try and use ideas from:

A long run of 8 miles (if that's what you can do now). This will get longer without consciously trying very hard. You'll do 10 pretty easily soon.

2 easy days of 4 miles.

Hill sprints. The short hill you mentioned is probably OK. Mine is around 50 yards, I think, and it ends at a busy highway so I stop and turn right around there then walk down. You should be able to do 10 of them. Do more if/when it feels like you can. Run at least a slow mile first, maybe 2.

An easy 4.

Warm-up 2 miles. Run 3 hard. Cool-down 1. It's hard enough that you'd have a hard time imaging going for 4. You KNOW you couldn't make it 5. Ideally, this becomes 4, then eventually 5 after some time.

2 easy days.

Strides. I like it to be 150-160m. If you go to a track and run right down the middle of the infield, from the peak of the turn to the peak of the other turn, that's good. On a stand-alone soccer field (which I use when I'm not near my favorite downhill spot) without a track, diagonal is good. Start with 8 if that is what's comfortable; increase if feeling like you can. Take a long jog back around to the start. Run at least one slow mile before then after.

1 easy day.

Try something like that.

One more thing I'll say:

I mentioned earlier that I didn't run for the school track team and discourage it for people who:

1. Are motivated enough to run regularly and train hard without scheduled practices and a coach telling you what to do.

And,

2. Those whose talents and interest lie in long distance events.

That would very accurately describe me in high school - and a lot of other kids in the '70s and '80s. It does not describe everyone. It's hard to find a race of a mile or less without access to track meets. At 5k and longer, racing opportunities are plentiful in my part of the country. Many races have serious and even semi-pro runners in their 20s and 30s. Competition is not lacking. If I was good at, and trying to become better at, something involving starting blocks, I suppose I would have HAD TO join the team.

All that having been said, school-affiliated running works for those who, left to their own devices, wouldn't end up running at all. There are big-time pros who train with a coached group and perhaps wouldn't be as successful on their own. The comraderie and resulting motivation are not particularly valuable to me, but certainly can be to many.

It sounded like track didn't really work out for you for various reasons and you weren't planning to do it. I wholeheartedly support such a move and believe that big gains can be made doing some of what I recommended and/or what others may advise. Even if you DO end up participating with the team, you can show up in great shape instead of not running at all until the day track starts, which is likely what some of the team will do.

This has been my extensive experience personally (x 49 yrs) and with my kids and as a coach. The advice you have been given is reasonable. My take used to be that if you love running, nothing will keep you from going out the door. Runners refer to it as an addiction. They are sad if they cant run. So my thought would be if someone didnt want to run or had no motivation, then maybe its not for you.

I have softened in my approach based on experiences with young runners. Running is hard. Basketball, Football, the military...all make you run as a punishment. Because its hard! So, its not unlikely that maybe you dont like it. But, even with my own kids i have learned that anything can be made more boring or unlikable if you try. You may love soccer, but kicking a ball by yourself in a field for hours day after day may not be too exciting.

What I am saying is this. Assuming you at least like running and the way it makes you feel, hedge your bets! My kids love running much more with their friends and teammates. Running with dad on a cold dark night? Not so much. Also, joining a team will mean quality sessions with variety to keep it fresh. Also, when I suggest Easy runs over the weekend for my team, i emphasize developing a good "relationship" with your running. If you wake up and its warm and sunny, go for a run! Go to your favorite courses, run with others when possible! You might not be that rare person that LOVES running every day, anywhere, no matter what. But it doesnt mean you cant still like it.

Build you base slow but sure ...log the miles. Join a team. Get some social capital. Variety. If you dont join a team in spring, have a great base going into XC and sprinkle in quality sessions even before XC starts. Hills, intervals, thresholds. If you want a crash course, just read Daniels--Running Formula a few times. Breaking 20 is big deal for young runners. Maybe make that a realistic goal. If you are eye balling sub 1830, thats a different kettle of fish based on your current mindset. If you are sub 20 and loving it, you will progress.

Run and hour a day. Mostly easy with some tempo. You’re too slow to worry about anything else.

Ok I'm not sure what happened but there are like 3-4 replies here that got deleted but Idk how

I saw the response about waiting for snow to melt before it was deleted but that's not what I said in my previous response, I talked about ice melting because it is dangerous to run on some of the trails by me. Also, most of the ice has melted on the sidewalks, there's still some snow but obviously I can run in that, but all of it will melt soon. All of the trails are terrible after snow for a few days so I can run soon once this headache goes away :(

Easy: go to Niwot or Newbury Park.