Sub 2 45 pb trying to get under 2 40.
Does it matter how fast my long runs are? Usually 20-22 miles sub 7 minutes.
Every time I push to 6:30 it leaves me empty for the following week.
Sub 2 45 pb trying to get under 2 40.
Does it matter how fast my long runs are? Usually 20-22 miles sub 7 minutes.
Every time I push to 6:30 it leaves me empty for the following week.
long runs wrote:
Sub 2 45 pb trying to get under 2 40.
Does it matter how fast my long runs are? Usually 20-22 miles sub 7 minutes.
Every time I push to 6:30 it leaves me empty for the following week.
Then it is pretty clear you should not do it IMO.
Do long intervals, like 5 x 1 mile at a pace below goal pace. The callousing effect will help you sustain a 6:30 pace easier.
Around 80% of marathon pace.
You should run a workout during your long run quite a bit during marathon training. But running the whole thing at 6:30 is not really ideal since it's not your marathon pace but still a lot faster than your easy run pace.
Your marathon pace is 6:18, goal of sub 6:15. During your buildup get up to 20-22 for an easy long run (not faster than 7:00 pace), then the next week do some sort of workout during it. This could just be a progression run where you start out north of 7:00 pace for the first several miles, then you're running 6:30-6:45 for the middle 5 miles, and the last 5 or so miles you increase to faster than marathon pace, maybe even sub 6:00 pace for the last mile. Another workout later on after a week of 20 easy you could do alternating 6:00-6:30 miles, so a little faster than marathon pace and a little slower than marathon pace, but only for the middle 10 miles, the first 5 and last 5 miles can be easy. Something like that... Running a bunch of miles fast but not that fast is not really that beneficial, 6:30 pace is too hard and will break you down a bit, but it's not fast enough to really get a good benefit for your racing.
stan the corgi wrote:
Do long intervals, like 5 x 1 mile at a pace below goal pace. The callousing effect will help you sustain a 6:30 pace easier.
I wouldn't call a mile interval 'long' for marathon training. I would start to say 3 miles or 5k is a long interval. 5k runners run mile intervals as their long interval. But yes this seems like my post above, 5 x 1 mile faster than marathon pace with a recovery mile between except the recovery mile isn't a jog, it's still kind of fast. That'll get you ready for the marathon. You can fake your way through a 5 x mile workout with an easy recovery, doesn't really challenge you much unless you're running near 5k race pace but we're talking the marathon here, so no need to run near 5k race pace unless it's in a repeat 400 workout just to spice things up a bit and feel fast between long grueling workouts.
I feel like you have to run MP in long runs to find success on race day. I know there are probably some who do mostly easy long runs & get by ok.
How many workouts do you do per week & what is your mileage?
If you're doing 2 hard workouts & then trying to run your long run at 6:30 pace, I can see you feeling drained the following week because that 6:30 pace is worth something faster. I would alternate weeks where you do 2 workouts & a long run at 7:00ish pace avg. (+/- within reason) & then weeks where you do 1 main workout mid-week (threshold reps) & then do a long run with marathon pace worked in. If you do 6 E, 10 @ M, 2-4 E, you ended up with 18-20 miles at ~6:30 pace but didn't run any of your miles at 6:30 pace. Gotta feel 6:00 miles past 25k in long runs to feel good about sub-2:40.
This question has been asked many times here. One of those turned into a Canova lesson.
https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=1363335&page=1
Remember the past wrote:
This question has been asked many times here. One of those turned into a Canova lesson.
https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=1363335&page=1
And I have debated with mr Canova some times about this with the long run ( the specific long run). Both his theory and mine shows great results in practice. His fastest coaching at 2:03 and mine so far at 2:07...........
To the OP my answer is that the pace of the long run really matters, but there are many ways to perform it.
- Coach J.S short lesson )) -
Al Sal had Mo Farah run 1 min slower than goal pace on long run day.
5:40 pace
Hi JS, please constrain your self-promotion based on fake results to your own 300+ page thread. You truly haven't helped a single person on the boards. Thanks!
......so I can give two versions that functions similar when it comes to get your best result but where the Canova version is tougher on you. In the Canova version you run mostly close to about 6:35-6:45 mile pace and in the DANCAN version you run much easier 7:50 pace for the most part of the long run.
thanks bye wrote:
Hi JS, please constrain your self-promotion based on fake results to your own 300+ page thread. You truly haven't helped a single person on the boards. Thanks!
LoL! )) I have helped many more runners here than you can ever imagine. :)
Ask Kipchoge. He mostly does 1000 m reps.
COACH WIZARD 1 wrote:
thanks bye wrote:
Hi JS, please constrain your self-promotion based on fake results to your own 300+ page thread. You truly haven't helped a single person on the boards. Thanks!
LoL! )) I have helped many more runners here than you can ever imagine. :)
First of all, you may not really be JS. The actual Spamming Swede was
SUPERIOR COACH JS
Then
Jan Stensson, Coach JS
Appeared.
Both registered user names. Both plausibly the real Wizard. Now, this
COACH WIZARD 1
is lurking around. Same clown, an imposter? Who knows; who cares!
None of the above have coached anyone as far as I can tell. Refer to the official thread if you question this at all.
I would run 10 - 13 miles this close to your race pace but not every week and the 20 -22 miler intentionally slower 7:00 or even slower. If the long run wipes you out for a whole week it isn't training any more
long runs wrote:
Sub 2 45 pb trying to get under 2 40.
Does it matter how fast my long runs are? Usually 20-22 miles sub 7 minutes.
Every time I push to 6:30 it leaves me empty for the following week.
Slow down your pace at long run to 07:10-07:30.
As per Daniels 2 45 pb runner pace range is: 07:10-07:55 mile/min.
Better to do a specific long run every 2nd or 3rd week (if you wish) examples:
1) 2h 20min @7:10-07:55+20min fartlek (1min on @MP/1min off @easy)
2) 2h20min @easy + 20min @MP straight
3) 2h20min @easy +fartlek pyramide (4/1/3/1/2/1/2/1/3/1 etc)
4) 2h10min+30min
5) 2h+40min
6) 1h50min+50min
7) 1h40min+60min
Etc...
For last workouts it is required some good amount of weekly mileage (min 80miles/w) in order to handle
Marathon training for the top runners have become increasingly specific. I do not know if this translates to slower runners as well, but in general specific training for marathon is primarily 2 things: Run close to marathon pace and run for a long time. Obviously nobody can train both at the same time. therefore I would keep the long runs specific in terms of the time running and rather use workouts with shorter volume at marathon specific pace. A big part of marathon training is also running a lot which probably is best done at an easy paced shorter runs due to short recovery need and comparably good payback.