Meet Eric Hulst:
http://www.runningentertainment.com/runningshots19.htmlMeet Eric Hulst:
http://www.runningentertainment.com/runningshots19.htmlRunningart2004 wrote:
1990s
Adam Goucher
Meb
Ritz
Matt Downin
...
...
Alan
60s- Gerry Lindgren, Steve Prefontaine, Dave Merrick, ???
70s- Craig Virgin, Jeff Nelson, Alberto Salazar, Tom Graves, Matt Centrowitz, Sr, Thom Hunt, Jim Spivey, Rudy Chapa, Chris Fox, Mark Nenow
80s- Bob Kennedy, Todd Williams, Reuben Reina, Marc Davis, Brad Hudson, Mark Mastalir, Eric Mastalir, John Trautman, Jay Marden, Tim Hacker
90s- Adam Goucher, Matt Downin, Meb K, Jorge Torres, Donald Sage, Sharif Karie, Abdir Mohamud, Ed Torres, Matt Tegenkamp, Abdul Alzindani
00s- Dathan Ritzenhein, Ryan Hall, Alan Webb, Galen Rupp, German Fernandez, Chris Solinsky, Chris Derrick, Matt Withrow, AJ Acosta, Garrett Heath
10s- Lucas Verzibicas, Edward Cheserek, Grant Fischer, Nico Young, Casey Clinger, Drew Hunter, Cole Hocker, Futsum Zeinalaisse, John Dressel, Josh Methner
In a 5k race at Balboa in good conditions, Lindgren goes out in 4:24 to fade hard with Ritz taking over at 1.5 miles and running 14:25 finishing 5 seconds ahead of a hard charging chase pack of Lucas V, Adam Goucher, Reuben Reinsa, Casey Clinger and Craig Virgin. A record 40 runners finish under 15 minutes.
The team battle is surprisingly close with the 10s taking it on the strength of their 4 and 5 runners.
Everyone talks about how the 90s sucked and thats true from a depth standpoint but Goucher ran 14:41 at Balboa, Jorge Torres was a beast in XC, and Donald Sage ran a faster mile than anyone from the 70s, 80, and 00s besides Webb and wasn't too far behind Ritz in the 2 mile
This is an enjoyable thread. It's odd how many of these great high school runners all but disappeared from the running scene shortly after college. Eric Hulst was one of the all time greats and grew up near me, though he was closer to my dad's age. He would do Gerry Lindgren-level insane mileage. But then he just kind of stopped running not long after high school, put on a bunch of weight, and died young. Jeff Nelson was another massive talent who went up to Oregon and got run off the team by Alberto. Anyway, can muse about so many. Better to have had some attention for your running ability than no attention at all.
Sure but I said in the first sentence I wasn’t including pre-2000
Of all the names listed in this thread, who went on to have the most successful running career? Using the twin criteria of Olympic success and meaningful records set (ARs or WRs) it is clearly Galen Rupp - four Olympic teams plus a silver and a bronze medal, and several ARs. Alan Webb has the big mile AR still standing, but a very poor showing in his one Olympics. Centro Jr has three Oly teams and that gold medal, but zero meaningful records. Craig Virgin won World Cross twice and set several ARs but Jimmy Carter ruined his certain Olympic glory in 1980. If you went back to the 1950s, you'd pick up Bob Schul and Billy Mills who each got gold medals in 1964 and set several ARs. But alas, they weren't in this thread.
birdbeard wrote:
oldoldrunner wrote:
Meet Eric Hulst:
http://www.runningentertainment.com/runningshots19.htmlSure but I said in the first sentence I wasn’t including pre-2000
Then start a different thread because this one is about all decades, not just the ones you have little knowledge of.
oldoldrunner wrote:
birdbeard wrote:
Sure but I said in the first sentence I wasn’t including pre-2000
Then start a different thread because this one is about all decades, not just the ones you have little knowledge of.
Nah I’m good.
#1 2010s
#2 2020s
#3 70s
I think technology could play a big role in this
Verzbicas,L Lindgren, Fernandez, Ritz, and possibly Solinksy all would have beaten Nico young. I am not even honestly convinced that Nico would beat Drew hunter. Which isn't saying he is a bad runner but I don't think his NXN win puts him ahead of all htose guys. In fact there could be evidence that he loses to his brothers and Colin Sahlman if we want to heavily weigh some of the course records and all of their failed attempts at breaking German's state record.
Since I ran in high school in the early 70’s this is my 70’s team, Only seven and it hurt me to leave some fellows off of the team. Some sub 8;50 2-milers. No 3200 back then.
By year
1971 Dave Merrick Lincoln Way, Illinois 8:43 indoor 13:38 3-mile
1973 Craig Virgin Lebanon ,Illinois 8:40.9/13:36
1973 Terry Wiiliams Lompoc, California 8:54/14:08 5k
1974 Rich Kimball De La Salle , California 8;46/13:43 World Junior Cross Champ while in high school.
1975 Rudy Chapa Hammond, Indiana 28:32 10k
1976 Eric Hulst 8:44/ 28:55 10k
1979 Jeff Nelson Burbank, California 8:36
I’ve left off super studs like Sharsu, Salazar, Hunt, Beck, Malmo just to name a few.
Some of you have never heard of some of these high runners, but they were super in high school, which this thread is about. I would stack these guys against any generation and they would do very well. I believe they would win,
60's - jim ryun, gerry lindgren, etc
70's - craig virgin, steve prefontaine, rich kimball, jorge torres, eric hulst, etc
80's - eric reynalds, etc
90's - ???
2000's - Dathan Ritzenhein, German Fernandez, Ryan Hall, Alan Webb, Chris Solinsky, etc
2010's - Nico Young, Lukas Versbicas, Ed Ches, Josh Methner, Leo Dashbach, Cole Sprout, Grant Fisher, Drew Hunter, Liam Anderson, Ryan Schoppe
2020's - Colin Sahlman, Leo Young, Lex Young, Zane Bergen, Riley Hough, Gavin Sherry, Aaron Sahlman, Judson Greer, Hobbs Kessler, Parker Wolfe
1. Ritz - I see this as
2. Lindgren - 29:17 10k ability paired with 8:40 speed
3. Virgin - only above Verzbicas because of his record and he ran 13:58
4. Verzbicas - I secretly think he can beat anyone here but there is still some evidence that the guys above him could manage to break him. 3:59 - 8:29 track times
5. Fernandez - 14:24 rcord which all the youngs and Sahlman failed to beat
6. Hunter - 1:48- 3:57 - 7:59 ability
7. Nico Young -all the guys above him have superior results in longer distances, or similar 5k ability paired with faster mile times.
8. Cheserek - 29:40 10k 13:57 indoors paired with 4:02 and 8:39 notable win over Futsum Z and 2nd to Lukas
9. Solinsky - could be anywhere from 9th to 2nd in my opinion. he won footlocker by 21 seconds running 14:41
10. Webb - Tossup between him and Fisher. I think he edges fisher in a race like this.
11. Grant Fisher - 3:59 guy and undertrained in hs compared to Webb who you know was training hard lol.
Stopping here because the 2010s would already have 5 runners in scoring 36 pts. I think there isa legitimate argument that Colin Sahlman and the other youngs could be in this top 10. That argument will ironically be strengthened on the track this winter/spring.
This is the only remotely accurate take so far.
The disrespect for Fernandez and Solinsky has been crazy.
You known I think most of your list is good, I don't get why so many people put Nico so far down though! While I'd respect a list that maybe doesn't put him top 2 like I would, but damn, not even top 5? Fernandez got 3rd at Nattys, and Hunter took down a significantly weaker field. I think most people that put Nico so low do it just because he's new, and hasn't really proven himself against the test of time like the previous guys. But I think the results he put up during his career spoke for themselves... the list of individuals he beat:
Daschbach, (ATT #3 Woodward course record list, future sub 4 HS miler, #3 ATT xc all time 5k)
Methner, (#2 all time xc 3 mile behind Nico)
Sprout (8:41 3200 runner his junior year, #4 ATT xc all time 5k)
Schoppe (undefeated Texas champ, #2 ATT xc all time 5k)
and plenty more: Caleb Brown, Matt Strangio, Nathan Green, etc
at NXN he gapped the field by 14 seconds...
He held back for NXN the week earlier at CIF. still ran a 14:29, whether he really could've gotten 14:24 is obviously debatable, but personally I think he could have.
I know the question is about xc but when you look at his track times its even more apparant... second fastest 3200/2mile-converted time as a junior ever behind Hunter,
#4 fastest outdoor highschool US 5k despite awful conditions, weak pacing and an entire freakin' season cancelled by the Rona, I mean how can you put this guy at 7th?
Add Brian Grosso for the 80's
2000s win and it’s not even close.
Yes, and Nico failed (multiple times) to break German's 14:24. It's fine to say that he was "holding back," but then -- for consistency's sake -- you should also mention factors like German being sick at nationals (a documented fact).
Ultimately, I think, exercises like this are about considering each individual at their respective best point in a given season -- when they're not "holding back" (lol), sick, injured, running in poor conditions, etc. You seem to be applying this kind of reasoning for *only* for Nico: What if the "significantly weaker" status of Hunter's field caused him to hold back too? What if German wasn't sick?
Either take results for what they are (Nico slower than German, German not a national champ, etc.) or at least pretend to be a little unbiased.
:
Also, Nico set the National 3k record at 7:56.97, smashing Drew Hunters record and on an indoor track. He likely would have broken more records on the track but sadly lost his senior track season. And holding the NXN course record is no small feat.
1) Nico Young does not beat Ritz in HS CC.
2) There was never even a mention- let alone a “consensus”- that Fisher would approach Ritz’s 14:10 at MIS. No way in hell.
3) Solinsky beats Fisher. He ran much faster at FLMW and FLN, and also ran low-8:40s for the 2 mile. Yes, Fisher always ran just to win, but 14:48?-15:02 (Kenosha) and 14:41-15:03 (Balboa) have to carry some weight.
4) To get to this definitive list, one must balance HS CC championship-season performances at the national level (typically as juniors and seniors), and even consider how they did as college freshman in CC to confirm their strength. Track performances also can impact order, but may not override clear CC performances edges.
THE ANSWER:
Ritz and Verzbicas go 1-2 in a very close race, with Ches not far behind.
TOP 5:
Ritz
Verzbicas
Ches
Lindgren
Fernandez (if 100%)
6-10 POTENTIAL:
Young
Virgin
Reina
Goucher
Solinsky
11-20 POTENTIAL:
Withrow
Rupp
Webb
Fisher
NP trio
Marc Davis (14:38 at Balboa with hand raised for last 75m)
Hunter
Zeinasellassie
Now you know.
A few adjustments, eliminating some personal rationalizations.
TOP 5:
Ritz
Verzbicas
Ches
Lindgren
Young
6-10 POTENTIAL:
Virgin
Reina
Goucher
Solinsky
Fernandez
11-20 POTENTIAL:
Fisher
NP trio
Webb
Withrow
Rupp
Marc Davis (14:38 at Balboa with hand raised for last 75m)
Hunter
Zeinasellassie
Heartless wrote:
Fernandez (if 100%)
As if Fernandez is the only runner who needs to be "100%", lol.
German Fernandez is a better XC runner than Nico Young at their respective bests (a given for this scenario). You know this, I know this, we all know this.
Jakob Ingebrigtsen has a 1989 Ferrari 348 GTB and he's just put in paperwork to upgrade it
Is there a rule against attaching a helium balloon to yourself while running a road race?
Strava thinks the London Marathon times improved 12 minutes last year thanks to supershoes
How rare is it to run a sub 5 minute mile AND bench press 225?
Mark Coogan says that if you could only do 3 workouts as a 1500m runner you should do these
Am I living in the twilight zone? The Boston Marathon weather was terrible!
Move over Mark Coogan, Rojo and John Kellogg share their 3 favorite mile workouts