Getting super close to my sub20 goal now. Came through the 1st mile today in 6:27, 2mi around 13:02. I think I could do better than this right now. My goal was not to break 20 today, and I was too much in my head around the 2mi. I slowed way down to 6:45ish pace for a while because I was scared of a crash that never happened. The last lap was like 6:20 pace and I didn't feel completely dead either.
Still glad I got a PR here and the end is in sight for my original goal when I started running. Will have to think of my next medium term goal, possible a half marathon <90 min , expecting that goal to take another year or two like this one did. I'm already starting to ramp up with longer runs and doubles. After that probably go back to my original super long term goal(2-5 years out) which is the sub 5 minute mile
I'm dropping down to 5k so am going back and reading these logs as I want to eventually do 5ks going forward. You're doing great and showing great improvement!
Getting super close to my sub20 goal now. Came through the 1st mile today in 6:27, 2mi around 13:02. I think I could do better than this right now. My goal was not to break 20 today, and I was too much in my head around the 2mi. I slowed way down to 6:45ish pace for a while because I was scared of a crash that never happened. The last lap was like 6:20 pace and I didn't feel completely dead either.
Still glad I got a PR here and the end is in sight for my original goal when I started running. Will have to think of my next medium term goal, possible a half marathon <90 min , expecting that goal to take another year or two like this one did. I'm already starting to ramp up with longer runs and doubles. After that probably go back to my original super long term goal(2-5 years out) which is the sub 5 minute mile
I also think going to experiment with different distances is what will keep running fun for us. I've read stories of people stuck on marathon training and hating it. Doing 5k/10k is so different, it's like another sport almost.
I just came back to running myself and was obese only 6 months ago and couldn't even run a mile at 12:00 pace without being sick and hyperventilating for 30 minutes afterwards lol. I'm in my 50's now and ran for a few years when I was in my late 20's when I trained for and did some marathons (got my pr down to 2:27 back then)
Last month I ran 18:28 (5:58 per mile) on a hilly course in windy conditions... and I am and old guy who is still 175 pounds lol
My training was mainly all tempo runs. I will run 3 miles on a street course when I am in the city. I run a hilly 0.4 mile out and back dirt/stone path when at home (hills).
On the street tempo runs I try to run each mile faster than the last. Now I do them at ~6:40 - ~6:30 - ~6:20. ( starting out a few months ago I was much slower)
On the hills I run the uphill hard and try to open my stride back down but recoup. I try to do 7 repeats (so close to 3 miles each work out). This is much harder so the pace is not as good.
As I've built up I feel I can go out more aggressively and hold the pace better.
I will do as many as 5 of the three mile hill runs per day. On those days I do not go as fast.
On days I only do one 3 miler on the streets I try to do it as fast as possible and push hard.
I know when I was at WSU I would see Patrick Muturi and other great distance runners doing the hill repeats a lot.
If you like flat 1/4 mile repeats that is fine but they are not the be all end all. I did none at all and never ran under 6:10 pace in training but still ran 5k in under 6 minute per mile pace at the race with running flats and adrenaline.
If you know you can do it many times per day it makes the distance seem very manageable.
If your within 30 sec/per mile of you goal race pace in practice you have a good chance of hitting your goal at the race.
Impressive on your progression and good luck on your sub 20 5k goal. I haven’t completely followed this thread however do you have any tips or training plan on how to progress to 40mpw without injury whilst losing 50lb. I am in similar situation and currently at 10mpw of Jog/walk.
thanks all for the replies, glad to see some others getting after it as well
for run_doit, just be careful at the start. Be aware of ankle pain during your runs, which seems to be the first sign of shin splints. That's probably the most common injury for overweight and beginning runners. Any other signs of injury be cautious in general. I had one minor injury during my training. That was psoas pain which came on slowly but I had ignored it until it got bad. Weight training seemed to fix that problem for good for me.
11/9: 3.4 mi @ 8:55//3.5mi @ 8:47
11/10: 3mi @ 8:28
11/11: intervals workout 400x12 repeats with 3 minute jogging recovery, pace was 6:07
11/12: 4.5mi @ 8:40
11/13: 5mi @ 8:46
11/14: 7.5mi @ 7:52 progression run
11/15: 6mi @ 8:28
11/16: Intervals workout, 0.75, 1.0mi, 0.75, 0.50 with 3 minutes jogging recovery, pace was 6:15 felt surprisingly easy
thanks all for the replies, glad to see some others getting after it as well
for run_doit, just be careful at the start. Be aware of ankle pain during your runs, which seems to be the first sign of shin splints. That's probably the most common injury for overweight and beginning runners. Any other signs of injury be cautious in general. I had one minor injury during my training. That was psoas pain which came on slowly but I had ignored it until it got bad. Weight training seemed to fix that problem for good for me.
11/9: 3.4 mi @ 8:55//3.5mi @ 8:47
11/10: 3mi @ 8:28
11/11: intervals workout 400x12 repeats with 3 minute jogging recovery, pace was 6:07
11/12: 4.5mi @ 8:40
11/13: 5mi @ 8:46
11/14: 7.5mi @ 7:52 progression run
11/15: 6mi @ 8:28
11/16: Intervals workout, 0.75, 1.0mi, 0.75, 0.50 with 3 minutes jogging recovery, pace was 6:15 felt surprisingly easy
Bill, you are doing good,
1) but those 12x400, 3min rest?? - this is where you are wrong. For your current shape, the rest is max 85-95s, but if you want a good vo2max session by 400m you should start every 2min, meaning:
400m you run by 88-95s, 120s-88÷95s=32-39s your rest, it is too short for your ability, so 400m is not good vo2max session for you,
but if you are doing it like speed training, anyway rest of 3min is too much, this is 5k pace and workout should be still aerobic, but not anaerobic with full recovery like 3min...
2) 2 sessions per week @5K is too much, one session every 10-14days.
Example:
Week 1:
Mo: easy
Tu: 8÷12×400 @5K/90s rest (1:1 ratio)
We: easy+strides
Th: easy
Fr: 20min tempo or 6x800 @threshold/rest 40-45s (1:5 ratio)
Sat: easy+strides
Sun: long
Week 2:
Mo: easy
Tu: 5÷10×200m @1.5-3K/45-60s rest
We: easy+strides
Th: easy
Fr: 20min tempo or 5x1000 @threshold/rest 50-60s
Sat: easy
Sun: long
Week 3:
Mo: easy
Tu: 6÷8×600 @5K/ rest 2-2.5min
.... and so on, 12×400 @5K/8×600 @5K/6×800 @5K/ 5x1000 @5K every third week and last one no closer to race date than 10-12days...
You are at a level in which you will make plenty of gains, simply by maintaining a good level of consistency; no need to push the envelope.
You don't need to do more than race volume in your sessions at this stage. However, you should try to be specific to the event.
Example workouts:
1. 8 x 600m @ slightly faster than race pace (5 secs/mile), 90 seconds jog recovery.
2. 6 x 800m @ race pace, 90 seconds jog recovery.
3. 5 x 1k @ race pace, 2 minutes jog recovery.
4. 4 x 1200m @ race pace, 2:30 jog recovery.
5. 3 x 1600m @ race pace, 5 minutes walk recovery.
Only do one of these workouts a week. Your other workout should be a tempo run @ Lactate Threshold e.g. 20 minutes continuous running at a pace that you could hold (all-out) for an hour.
for the psoas pain, I think it was mitigated by getting more core strength. Weighted crunches, deadlifting, hanging leg raises I suspect were helpful but I'm not able to say for sure. I am still lifting 2 days on 1 day off focusing on bench press, deadlift, barbell rows, and shoulder press with some cable accessories, pull ups and ab work mixed in.
When I was having Psoas issue I was not even able to deadlift my own bodyweight with an extremely weak back, glutes and core. Now I can do 2x bodyweight for 5 sets of 5 comfortably at the same bodyweight.
I will consider everything you've mentioned on the 400m repeats. I have been doing them all along 400m running and 400m jogging. I say 3 minutes rest for the 400m jogging, which is an overestimate, but it is very slow jogging at 10 minute mile pace or slower. My goal is for each rep to feel no harder than the one before. I think 6:07 pace is a little slow for this workout for me. I wanted to get comfortable running at the pace and trying to run each rep with a relaxed, fluid form and not pounding or favouring my left foot.
These workouts may not be the most beneficial in the long run. Jack Daniels calculator for my 5k time suggests these at a pace of 6:02 with "as long as necessary" rest. I have not run faster than 10mph/6:00 pace at all other than strides in my training. I am not used to those paces and my form gets sloppy very quickly above my 5k pace.
At this point I am used to doing 1 slow jog lap as my recovery, regardless if I am doing 400m , 800m or even a mile as the rep. I will have to get used to taking shorter rests I think, even in the 400m repeats.
Still glad I got a PR here and the end is in sight for my original goal when I started running. Will have to think of my next medium term goal, possible a half marathon <90 min , expecting that goal to take another year or two like this one did. I'm already starting to ramp up with longer runs and doubles. After that probably go back to my original super long term goal(2-5 years out) which is the sub 5 minute mile
A half marathon < 90 min is more difficult than a sub-20 5k (it's about as hard as a sub-40 10k). Which you know, because you say you may need a year or two to make that jump.
A sub-5 minute mile is a very lofty goal for you.
Two years ago in my mid-40ies I ran 18:20 for 5k and a half marathon < 90 min, but I was nowhere near sub-5 minute mile fitness.
You may want to aim for a sub-5 min 1500m for your long term goal.
But first things first. You still have to run sub-20.
for the psoas pain, I think it was mitigated by getting more core strength. Weighted crunches, deadlifting, hanging leg raises I suspect were helpful but I'm not able to say for sure. I am still lifting 2 days on 1 day off focusing on bench press, deadlift, barbell rows, and shoulder press with some cable accessories, pull ups and ab work mixed in.
When I was having Psoas issue I was not even able to deadlift my own bodyweight with an extremely weak back, glutes and core. Now I can do 2x bodyweight for 5 sets of 5 comfortably at the same bodyweight.
I will consider everything you've mentioned on the 400m repeats. I have been doing them all along 400m running and 400m jogging. I say 3 minutes rest for the 400m jogging, which is an overestimate, but it is very slow jogging at 10 minute mile pace or slower. My goal is for each rep to feel no harder than the one before. I think 6:07 pace is a little slow for this workout for me. I wanted to get comfortable running at the pace and trying to run each rep with a relaxed, fluid form and not pounding or favouring my left foot.
These workouts may not be the most beneficial in the long run. Jack Daniels calculator for my 5k time suggests these at a pace of 6:02 with "as long as necessary" rest. I have not run faster than 10mph/6:00 pace at all other than strides in my training. I am not used to those paces and my form gets sloppy very quickly above my 5k pace.
At this point I am used to doing 1 slow jog lap as my recovery, regardless if I am doing 400m , 800m or even a mile as the rep. I will have to get used to taking shorter rests I think, even in the 400m repeats.
Bill... it must feel hard, this is 5K, and if it is too hard with described recommended rest, it is meaming that:
1) overall volume of reps is too much for your fitness (8% max of weekly mileage)
2) you are not recovered well due to wrong weekly schedule: too low volume, too fast easy runs, too much workouts per week
Keep it simple.
Phase one: - 12 weeks - lots of easy running, as much as you can handle - once to twice a week a tempo run - fartlek as often as you feel (including 3-6x200/3-6×400 @1.5K-5K intervals with reduced volume - strides 2-3 times a week Phase two: - 4 weeks - two to three times a week do a hill circuit Phase three: (and only here you do specific 5k workouts like 12x400/8×600/6×800/5×1000 every 2nd week) - 8 weeks - 2-3 do some track work
Race...
Repeat again with base, but try to increase this time overal volume by 1h more per week and build untill race again. You got 2 peaks per year: spring and autumn, of course you can race after base, hill circuits as well, but your main races will be 2 per year, it is quite optimal for us hobbyjoggers... good luck👍
I think you're taking too long to hit this goal, and a sub 90 half is a million miles away for you.
Race yourself into fitness. Each week do a 5K time trial and don't even try to pace yourself - just go for it.
Your easy pace is also too slow. It should be 8 minute miles.
You are also running too many days for such little mileage. 4 days a week is enough with 3 1 hour runs and 1 5K attempt.
Well this might because of my overall fitness goals and schedule. I don't have time for long running sessions very often and it's much easier to fit in a quick run at lunch and a quick run after work for example. Keep in mind I am also lifting 4 to 5 days a week heavy compound lifts, which sessions take another 1+ hour out of my day and a lot of energy and recovery. My weight has also gone up to "overweight" category in terms of BMI, although I am lean ~12% bodyfat, it still doesn't help to be carrying an extra 25lb
It's not a race to get sub20 or any of my other goals for me, especially the sub5 mile which is a lifetime goal and not something I have even started training for yet. As long as I am making slow and steady progress for the next few years without injuries that is enough for me. I will still take all feedback here into consideration.
11/17: 5mi @ 8:24
11/18: 5mi @ 8:25
11/19: 10km in 43:07 (6:56/mi pace)
this felt really smooth and good today. Last hard 10k I ran was 44:30 and felt worse than this, so it's good to chop over a minute off of it and have it feeling easier than last time.
Set out to break 20 before I turned 30 back when that seemed like it was ages away. I will turn 30 this month so I was running out of time and had to suck it up and do it. Haven't done any structured workouts since my 10k TT a couple weeks ago. Took a few days very easy over the Thanksgiving time, then I started ramping up the pace on my easy runs, switched to roads running and working in short pickups at goal pace (6:22/mi). Listened to the guy on here who said to just hit the treadmill and go allout, which is exactly what I did and it worked out. Next mini-goal will be to do this on the roads (I'm in southern FL and it's been in the 80s humid every day. I think with the mental hurdle of breaking 20 behind me and the 12 seconds to spare, doing this on the flat roads here on a cool day shouldn't be a problem. My main focus now will shift to longer event(half marathon).
Someone on here mentioned that is a far off goal for me, which it is. However I don't know if it is as far as it might seem. It's just a few seconds per mile faster than my recent 10k, and I haven't been focused on the 10k or half marathon at all in my training. I think I could hit sub-45 for 10.5k in fairly short order if not already on a good day. Then just have to figure out how to do twice in a row.
Set out to break 20 before I turned 30 back when that seemed like it was ages away. I will turn 30 this month so I was running out of time and had to suck it up and do it. Haven't done any structured workouts since my 10k TT a couple weeks ago. Took a few days very easy over the Thanksgiving time, then I started ramping up the pace on my easy runs, switched to roads running and working in short pickups at goal pace (6:22/mi). Listened to the guy on here who said to just hit the treadmill and go allout, which is exactly what I did and it worked out. Next mini-goal will be to do this on the roads (I'm in southern FL and it's been in the 80s humid every day. I think with the mental hurdle of breaking 20 behind me and the 12 seconds to spare, doing this on the flat roads here on a cool day shouldn't be a problem. My main focus now will shift to longer event(half marathon).
Someone on here mentioned that is a far off goal for me, which it is. However I don't know if it is as far as it might seem. It's just a few seconds per mile faster than my recent 10k, and I haven't been focused on the 10k or half marathon at all in my training. I think I could hit sub-45 for 10.5k in fairly short order if not already on a good day. Then just have to figure out how to do twice in a row.
I like November and December in south Florida because it gets dark early. I wait till 6 pm and do my runs then. So much easier than running in the sun.
thanks and no, it was just a solo TT. I have not run any road races since I was a kid. It hasn't interested me for the 5k since it takes a lot of time out of my day just to run my mediocre times. For the half I am more likely to try them. I wouldn't mind running a practice one with no goals or expectations just to see where I'm at, since I've never run the distance at all. With the holidays coming up my time is extremely limited now and into January some work and family obligations. After that I would like to give it a try.
I had a lighter week of running after getting the sub-20 but now I'm getting back into it and had a quality session today.
12/2: 3.5mi @ 8:22
12/3: -
12/4: 6mi @ 7:58
12/5: 7mi with four 800m pickups (~3 minutes hard)
I'm not used to these long intervals so mentally this felt a little taxing but phyisically smooth. Overall it felt like the perfect intensity level for a workout starting to transition towards the longer distances. I would like to build up to 5-6 reps of 1.5mi at this pace. My plan is to run long (>=1mi) or tempo runs weekly and every other week or so do 800s. I would like to reduce my 800m jogging recoveries from my normal 3 minute shuffle to around 90 seconds then from there start to increase the rep range from 4-6 to 8-10 to help build my endurance.