With vaccines widely available, why are people freaking out about the new South African Covid variant?

I am trying to understand what a 3 dose guy can be thinking right now when he learns that there is a new variant virus with a very high number of mutations that can essentially removes completely any benefits he has gained with his jabs.

Great post.

rojo wrote:

I just got back from my 7 pm et appointment for my booster shot. I'm pumped as I always wanted Moderna and finally got it (Pfizer on April 10 and May 1). At the pharmacy, people were joking about how we are all gonna die due to the SA variant.

But then it hit me, "If the vaccines work, why in the hell are we worried about some variant?"

Three questions about it we don’t know the answers to (fully).

1. Is it more contagious than Delta? Seems possible, since it’s already dominant in South Africa. (That also basically means it’s spread elsewhere and a travel ban is about 2 weeks too late).

2. Does it cause more severe illness? We won’t know for a few more weeks.

3. Does it evade immunity conferred by either previous infection or the vaccines? This is the big one, and it appears that the answer is no.

But it does show that vaccinating a ton of people in one country isn’t going to stop the pandemic. With worldwide spread, the vaccines need to be available and adopted at high rates everywhere. Otherwise, the virus continues to spread, continues to mutate, and will have an opportunity to turn into a variant where the answers to all the above questions is “yes”.

Trollometry wrote:

jamb innnnn wrote:

There haven't been any answers just insults, deflection, etc.

I just measure Trollometrics.

Someone else called it last night, in response to OP by rojo, see their post:

interesting take wrote:

This is pathetic and you know exactly what you're doing with this post.

Rings of truth,

I'm out.

If you understand

1. Why we reformulate the flu vaccine each year and

2. Why we have been unable to develop a vaccine against HIV

you’ll have the answer to your question.

I guess a lot of people don't believe the vaccines work or will work against the new variant. It's pretty simple logic.

The fact that you even asked yourself that question, without the foggiest idea of the answer (if true), shows the failure of the American educational system. And you went to good schools, right?

And now that I've been snarky, here's the short answer:

vaccines work by bringing about an immune response in a person. But that immune response is specific to the material IN the vaccine. In the case of a viral illness that has the capacity to change/mutate, the vaccine-induced immune response is only good against the mutated virus if it shares the same structure as the virus used in the vaccine. Here, the mutated virus (as with the flu virus every year) changes the viral proteins that were the target of the vaccination immune response, so the immune response will not be as effective against the mutated virus..

If you have time, listen to Dr. John - non political, just the facts etc.

https://youtu.be/oxlYyZ08cEg

fisky wrote:

rojo wrote:

But then it hit me, "If the vaccines work, why in the hell are we worried about some variant?"

It gets back to my original concern voiced when the vaccines first came out. "What are the long term effects of the vaccine itself?" The answer is... we don't know.

We also don't know the long term effects of the virus. Is there any reason to believe the vaccine will be more dangerous than the virus?

^ shifting burden fallacy.

You don't push experimental medicine on a population, that's human rights 101. You prove it safe first.

Bad Wigins wrote:

^ shifting burden fallacy.

You don't push experimental medicine on a population, that's human rights 101. You prove it safe first.

Agreed. This is what’s causing division and anger. Now the new Omicron BEGAN by infecting vaccinated people, and their answer will be to force vaccines. How can anyone make sense of that?

rojo wrote:

But then it hit me, "If the vaccines work, why in the hell are we worried about some variant?"

Understanding the worry requires holding two thoughts simultaneously in the head: (1) vaccines have been shown to have high (~95%) efficacy with early variants; (2) their efficacy wanes over time and their efficacy against new variants is unknown.

Not that complicated.

That's a GREAT question. It's hard to answer without referring to anecdotal evidence, but here's one concern. As of today, November 27, the US has (or should have) long-term one-year follow-up data on 13,000,000 covid cases. As of today, we have zero data on one-year vaccine follow-ups.

So to partially answer your question, we have one-year data on 13 million cases of covid and one-year data on zero vaccine subjects.

There have been numerous concerns raised about the long-term effects of the vaccine. A Canadian doctor found elevated d-dimer levels in OVER HALF of his vaccinated patients. The d-dimer test finds micro blood clots. His concern is that these micro clots will grow over time to cause health problems. To date, the EU version of VAERS is showing clusters of vaccinated deaths in cardiac, blood, and respiratory disorders. Is this only 30,000 deaths so far, but is it a temporary spike after getting vaccinated or will it get worse over time? We don't know.

Other concerns have been raised that over time the vaccine will impair the immune system to the point that it becomes more susceptible to all communicable diseases.

Studies show that the spike protein does not stay in the arm, but it travels throughout the body and has been found in several organs, including the reproductive organs. Will this result in reproductive problems down the road?

There have been anecdotal reports of rising stillbirths in vaccinated mothers. Since these babies were never born, that's a long-term effect.

So... it's really a judgement call.

Now, the judgment call will be easier in April 2022. By then, 100 million Americans will have been vaccinated for one year. The long-term effects, if any, should be pretty hard to cover up by then.

Oops, in my previous post, I was referring to this question by Drew Peacock. I neglected to quote his question in my response.

Drew Peacock wrote:

fisky wrote:

It gets back to my original concern voiced when the vaccines first came out. "What are the long term effects of the vaccine itself?" The answer is... we don't know.

We also don't know the long term effects of the virus. Is there any reason to believe the vaccine will be more dangerous than the virus?

Covidiocy wrote:

https://summit.news/2021/11/26/omicron-variant-first-detected-in-four-people-who-were-fully-vaccinated/

Pretty amazing.

In an area of the world where the vaccination rate is miniscule, this new variant is discovered in 4 vaxxed people.

Solution?

More jabs of course

GORP wrote:

I'll take a shot at this.. There are still like 40% of Americans who aren't vax'd yet.. not to mention the massive numbers world-wide who aren't. Next, they still don't know how effective the vaccines will be against this new variant. As we allow the spread to continue as it is, it also mutates more easily. It'd be VERY helpful if EVERYONE got vax'd and if we could get the rest of the world (including developing countries) on board.

Americans?

Republitards.

Fixed.

High Marks wrote:

I am trying to understand what a 3 dose guy can be thinking right now when he learns that there is a new variant virus with a very high number of mutations that can essentially removes completely any benefits he has gained with his jabs.

Nope, so far indications are that the vaccines will prevent variants from making you really sick or killing you.

For the unvaccinated - there's a huge risk a variant will kill them even faster.

Enjoy, Republican Trumptards, Putin backers.