Why does Kenya win the 800, 1500, HM, and Ethiopia win the 5k, 10k?

Tradition.

Kenyan distance runners are pushed towareds the roads as they can make more money there compared to the 5k/10k. Ethiopians have a federation that gives more support for their track athletes so they can stay with 5k/10k. a reason for lack of Ethiopian middle distance runners may be because a lot of runners are pushed toward the 5K because 53 second last laps are often a requirement to medal. Someone like Muktar Edris who is great at tactical 5K may be a 1500 meter runner in another country.

They flip a coin to decide who gets to win what.

Kenya has always done poorly at the 5k and 10k with no global gold medals for the men since the epic Kipchoge-El Guerrouj-Bekele matchup in Paris 2003 and a similarly long dry spell before that. And it's followed every year (for 30+ years by disingenuous remarks and articles about the decline of Kenyan dominance when we've always known Kenyan strength has always been in the steeple and middle distances.

Jgt11 wrote:

Kenyan distance runners are pushed towareds the roads as they can make more money there compared to the 5k/10k. Ethiopians have a federation that gives more support for their track athletes so they can stay with 5k/10k. a reason for lack of Ethiopian middle distance runners may be because a lot of runners are pushed toward the 5K because 53 second last laps are often a requirement to medal. Someone like Muktar Edris who is great at tactical 5K may be a 1500 meter runner in another country.

I like this answer. So suppose everyone is in their natural event. Some Ethiopian 5k/10k runners move to the 1500, and others move to the roads. Maybe we have:

800: Kenya way better

1500: Kenya better, but Ethiopia closer

5000: Ethiopia still much better, but Kenya closer

10000: Even?

Half Marathon: Even at the top, but Kenya deeper

Marathon: Ethiopia better at the top, Kenya deeper

This looks much more believable. Do I need to shift it even more than this?

I still find it a bit crazy. Kenya dominates in the 800, and is at least tied in the longer distances. That's amazing range. But they're weaker in the middle. Is this a Masai vs. Kalenjin thing?

I think the differences are cultural not genetic.

Both Kenyan and Ethiopian athletes live at the same altitudes by or near the Rift Valley. Similar Climates also.

You don't see Ethiopian 400 and 800m runners and rarely see Ethiopian 1500m runners because they don't get the same support that Kenyan athletes do at those distances.

It seems Kenya's pipeline of 5,000 and 10,000 meter runners has been somewhat replenished, but they're still falling short (narrowly) at the highest level. It's probably worth noting Paul Chelimo is of course Kenyan-born and has had success during the dry spell. Nicholas Kimeli was oh-so-close but got beat by him. Krop, Simiyu Ebenyo have fast times that indicate they should be competitive for medals. For the 10,000 Kenya's three best guys Kamworor, Kandie and Rhonex Kipruto have all been snake-bit as far as health for global champs. But they're all capable of running 26:30 or faster so it seems more underachievement/focus on the roads than being worst at the event than Ethiopia or Uganda.

A weird pattern is that:

-Ethiopian 1500 runners have recently been too poor at closing tactical races to make finals/win medals

-Kenyan 5,000/10,000 runners have the same problem in those events.

Meanwhile Kenyan 800/1500 runners have fared well in finals and getting through, and mostly the same for the top-end Ethiopian distance talents at the 5/10 (you saw the struggles of their B-Teamers in the 5,000 with their Federation not allowing doubles).

I agree

OK, well then here's another question: Ethiopians are known to close fast, while Kenyans start fast or push in the middle of the race. Of course, there are exceptions (Lagat, Ayana, ...) But this trend fits with the race results: 5k/10k on the track are known as fast-finishing races, while the 800 in particular and also road races are even to positive splits.

Is this cultural too? Or is there an "Ethiopian gene" that gives you a blistering kick?

1991 - a Kenyan won Gold in the 5000 and 10,000

1992 - a Kenyan won Silver in the 5000 and 10,000

1993* - Kenya won Gold in the 5000, Silver and Bronze in the 10,000

1995 - Kenya won Gold and Bronze in the 5000, Bronze in the 10,000

1996* - Kenya won Silver in the 5000 and 10,000

1997* - Kenya won Gold and Bronze in the 5000, Silver in the 10,000

1999* - Kenya won Silver in the 5000 and 10,000

2000* - Kenya won Silver in the 10,000 (missed Gold by 0.09 s)

2001 - Kenya won Gold and Bronze in the 5000, Gold in the 10,000

2003 - Kenya won Gold in the 5000

2004 - Kenya Bronze in the 5000

2005 - Kenya won Gold in the 5000 and Bronze in the 10,000

2007 - Kenya won Silver in the 5000, Bronze in the 10,000

2008* - Kenya won Silver and Bronze in the 5000, Bronze in the 10,000

2009 - Kenya won Bronze in the 10,000

2011 - no 5 or 10 medals for Kenya

2012 - Kenya Bronze in the 5000

2013 - Kenya won Bronzein the 5000 and 10,000

2015 **- Kenya won Silver in the 5000, Silver and Bronze in the 10,000

2016* - Kenya Silver in the 10,000

2017 - Kenya won Bronze in the 10,000

2019 - Kenya won Bronze in the 10,000

2021 - no 5 or 10 medals for Kenya

That's pretty good in the 5000 and 10,000 to me.

It's been mostly Geb, Bekele and Farah winning Golds during that time.

Kenya would have a much nicer Gold count if it weren't for those three.

I put an * for Golds won by Geb, Bekele and Farah. That's 9 Kenyan Silvers losing to them.

Good question, I have no idea.

There might be something to Kenyan 5,000/10,000 runners psychologically thinking they need to push earlier in races. The Ethiopian guys are completely comfortable letting it go slow and then going nuts the last 600-800. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy at some point. I doubt it's something completely physical because we've seen plenty of Kenyan-born 5,000/10,000 guys (Soi, Longosiwa, Kipchoge, Chelimo, Lagat) finish extremely fast in races.

Kipchoge outkicked El Gerrouj an Bekele in Paris 2003. That situation was reversed later.

Charles Kamathi won the World's 10,000 in 2001 with a blistering kick.

This genetic trait is a not local, it's pandemic.

Did I just say pandemic? Hell yeah, I'm reclaiming the word.

Ethiopians have better kicks because they spend more time doing sprint work. Geb and Bekele would do 10x100m spiked up and fast. The Ethiopian system of training comes a lot from the soviets due to USSR-Ethiopia relations. Thus Plyometrics, sprints, lower mileage and more intensity than the Kenyan program.

Let’s also give credit to Haji Adilo the top Ethiopian distance coach. As prolific as Sang is for the Marathon/HM, Adilo is for the 5 and 10. Clearly he coaches their sprint speed as well.

And now it seems we'll be competing against Joshua Cheptegei and Selemon Barega who both have better kicks than the current crop of Kenyans.

Kenya is also the only country posters here actively hate on.

NOTHING weird about genetic differences of the various human races that evolved thousands of miles apart from each other.

Perfect racial equality is the weirdest and most anti-science idea in history. Biblical creationism is less anti-science than perfect racial equality, where lame sociological/cultural excuses supposedly explain away genetic differences.

Plus you guys might want to google "mystery ancestor Africa 19%"

Probably all comes down to the fact that EPO testing has been greatly improved in Kenya, whereas it's still almost non-existent in Epiopia.

flip flop wrote:

I'm leaving out the steeple here, although that's obviously Kenya.

Isn't it weird? Kenya is the best country in the world in the 800 and 1500 (at least for men

Kenya is not the best in the world at 1500m.

Both Kiprop's and Manangoi's performances should be discounted.

GB is superior to Kenya currently, and only one more doping bust and they'd be behind Norway, Australia, USA...