Rana Reider to be investigated by SafeSport over sexual misconduct claims

To add, if you don't think that the 'clean up crew' set out to 'get rid of the narcissists' isn't a group of narcissists themselves, your naivete is showing.

liar soorer wrote:

Also, some not very distant time ago it was deemed ok to put athletes into technical positions...

I'm not sure what "technical positions" you are mean.

Patrick Bateman wrote:

3Mason wrote:

I'm not surprised. Years ago it was a open secret that he was sleeping with Desiree Henry.

Whats the problem though? People getting together with people they know? Sonia O'Sullivan married her coach.

It can get really tricky. First in a situation where it is a college coach and an athlete, there is a clear power dynamic here. The coach controls scholarship and what meets the athlete competes in. So is the relationship really consensual? Let's go with another dynamic even if it is. What does that do to the team dynamics? Does the team perceive the player getting special treatment? Does the team perceive the athlete being selected for high profile events or opportunities (see NIL) because of the relationship? And are they in reality? What if athletes are having trouble with a coach but do not talk about it because the player in the relationship is around.

Now outside of college there could still be a power dynamic, but also it can really blur the lines and does stress in one area cause stress in the other? You have a fight at home about wet towels on the floor. Let's say a female athlete dating a male coach (the most common it seems like). If she gets pissed at him for the towels on the floor, does he "pay her back" at practice? Or what if they have a fight at home and then she has to go do a track workout, what lingering emotions are there. (And maybe a few can separate but that is pretty rare. I ran track sessions for people I coached and it was not uncommon for someone to show up coming off a fight with their spouse or SO. Now imagine having to deal with that person at "work".)

Along those lines, let's say the marriage goes south, then the athlete is looking for a new coach. Or what if performance gets worse, firing your husband seems like a pretty hard thing to do. (Yes the ideal thing would be for him to recognize the need and withdraw but how often do you think that is going to happen?)

I know many female athletes who marry their coach. It might well be working for them. I often hear "well he knows me better than anyone". I also know a few couples whose marriage ended after the athlete retired because what kept them together was her career and once that was over they found they had little else in common.

In short, I think it is best to avoid these dual relationships. Most professions have strict rules against it or at least strong admonishments against it. Yes even for consenting adults.

kumquat wrote:

TaskMaster2021 wrote:

2 parts

1st, He coaches Adults, so whats the issue if its consensual? i.e. his relationship with henry in the UK

if however he uses his position when an athlete is underperforming and threatens to remove them from the group etc, than thats another.

2nd, rumour is it has something to do with the Ducks girl that left after a bad year...

When, long ago, Harvard debated prohibiting faculty from having relations with graduate students, John Kenneth Galbraith passionately defended allowing it. His main argument was that he had been married happily to his graduate student for sixty some years.

Some people just never can finish that dissertation...

This sort of argument is the worst type and ignores how often (and potentially) problematic it can be. It is like when 1 person survives a car wreck without wearing a seat belt.

liar soorer wrote:

TaskMaster2021 wrote:

UK practice is to suspend a coach immediately upon any accusations (can be seen as positive to ensure any safety if true etc) but you're right the damage then to image is already done!

Of course the rumours around the former squad member, could also include a brit as there are more British females in that group than those mentioned

Remember though this is on top of the issues with Blessing.

Why risk coaching if an “allegation “ brings your life to an abrupt and painful pause

That can be said of any profession.

liar soorer wrote:

Blimey M8 wrote:

That is a very American reaction of yours, Robert.

Not quite. I just don’t think he has read the case against US Gymnastics etc.

I have no idea what controls the insurance companies will be requiring Governing Bodies to put in place.Or the new premiums.

Can “ amateur “ sport survive all this ?

We are down to two insurance companies in the US who will write policies for sports. And they are considering not covering sexual abuse allegations at all. It could be one before long. In that case with 1 company controlling the premiums will go even higher (no competition).

Some sports might be able to self-insure, but that is costly.

The cost of playing organized sports is going to go way up.

STEVE THE ADDICT^^^^^^""""""""'"--';"- wrote:

Banging athletes as consenting adults in SJW mob infested nations such as USA, Britain and Canada is now a crime. He's in trouble.

I am not sure that it is a crime anywhere, but no one is talking about locking people up for consensual sex with another adult. It might mean that you are not going to get paid a stipend by the NGB/NOC or that you will not be able to be credentialed at an event.

STEVE THE ADDICT^^^^^^""""""""'"--';"- wrote:

seriously tho wrote:

Genuinely shocked at how common this seems to be. Like what machiavellian manipulation crap do these middle age coach use to repeatedly end up having sex with (much younger) female athletes in EXCLUSIVELY toxic, borderline abusive, borderline criminally illegal ways over the course of years and decades. And it always happens multiple times before any woman speaks out. And then it's always an open secret that everyone knew about. Like wtf.

Women (and girls under 18) are naturally attracted to men in position of authority. Couple this with spending a lot of time together and/or talking to each other and things can escalate. Believe me I know women very well and understand human psychology to the fullest extent. Just act like a man in an authoritative position in any setting and you can get women like Donald Trump.

Wow, the world's foremost authority on human psychology posts here!

Yes, some women are. Also some men groom and manipulate very well. Some men take advantage of their positions of power too and coerce women into sex. (This was the whole basis of Harvey Weinstein).

Tastes Like Chicken wrote:

liar soorer wrote:

Also, some not very distant time ago it was deemed ok to put athletes into technical positions...

I'm not sure what "technical positions" you are mean.

Pushing hips underneath for the finish of the Discus.To indicate one of a thousand.

People greatly overestimate the ability and intelligence of these "master manipulators". They "go after" women with serious mental illnesses or who were previously abused. They don't really know or care about these specifics; to them, it's the women who put up with their crap. It is almost always a widely known secret because:

1. The guy is openly a perv in front of lots of people.

2. The AD, head coach, School President, etc let them off the hook multiple times becasue they cannot be bothered to actually do things.

3. The women talk about it, and information gets to plenty of people, including AD, coaches (who do nothing).

4. They are plenty "toxic" outside of this one thing. He kicks people off for little reason. He has a bad temper. He spams athlete's phones. He has a drining problem.

Important to remember that the ONLY way these guys like this ever actually progress all the way to coerced sex is because everyone tolerates behavior that they should not (athletes, other coaches, any boss he has).

If your male coach is hypercritical or sexist about individual women on the team, that's a massive red flag and you should immediately tell the AD, the women's team, your own teammates, every other coach. If you're brave enough, you should tell your coach to drop that sh*t immediately or you will shine a spotlight on it.

liar soorer wrote:

Tastes Like Chicken wrote:

I'm not sure what "technical positions" you are mean.

Pushing hips underneath for the finish of the Discus.To indicate one of a thousand.

I wondered what was meant by that.

A coach can still do that. The key is asking permission and not doing other stuff that is inappropriate. Also doing that in full view of others rather than the privacy of your own office. If you as a coach physically touch an athlete in a way to correct a technical flaw and do NOTHING ELSE to raise suspicions you will be okay. I make that claim because it happens every day in dozens of sports to thousands of people and no one wonders.

Now if you touch them and then make some crude comment and later are lurking around the outside of the locker room and asking them to dinner then maybe it grows into something.

averageschmo wrote:

The 51-year-old American’s behaviour off the track is to be scrutinised by the US Center for SafeSport organisation, a powerful and independent body that handles investigations and complaints into abuse and misconduct in Olympic sports.

The Guardian has also learned that the allegations against Reider have led to UK Athletics warning Gemili and Neita to cease contact with their renowned coach or their membership into the World Class Programme, including lottery funding, will be suspended. A similar message has been conveyed to other British athletes who were considering moving to the US to train under Reider.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/nov/03/leading-athletics-coach-rana-reider-to-be-investigated-over-sexual-misconduct-claims

This guy sounds like one of those gosh danged fornicators!

Luv2Run wrote:

liar soorer wrote:

Pushing hips underneath for the finish of the Discus.To indicate one of a thousand.

I wondered what was meant by that.

A coach can still do that. The key is asking permission and not doing other stuff that is inappropriate. Also doing that in full view of others rather than the privacy of your own office. If you as a coach physically touch an athlete in a way to correct a technical flaw and do NOTHING ELSE to raise suspicions you will be okay. I make that claim because it happens every day in dozens of sports to thousands of people and no one wonders.

Now if you touch them and then make some crude comment and later are lurking around the outside of the locker room and asking them to dinner then maybe it grows into something.

Still not have got it have you!

20 odd years ago you would not have to make to conditions you state.

Today you do.

What will be the way such is viewed in 20 yrs?

Now have you got it? Relative morality that changes from time to time and place to place…. and will continue so.

Yusef Scumm. wrote:

This guy sounds like one of those gosh danged fornicators!

The shock! Who does such a thing??? How did we ever get here?!?!?!

and you've just shown your ignorance - I'm nowhere near my 20's

Luv2Run wrote:

STEVE THE ADDICT^^^^^^""""""""'"--';"- wrote:

Women (and girls under 18) are naturally attracted to men in position of authority. Couple this with spending a lot of time together and/or talking to each other and things can escalate. Believe me I know women very well and understand human psychology to the fullest extent. Just act like a man in an authoritative position in any setting and you can get women like Donald Trump.

Wow, the world's foremost authority on human psychology posts here!

Yes, some women are. Also some men groom and manipulate very well. Some men take advantage of their positions of power too and coerce women into sex. (This was the whole basis of Harvey Weinstein).

You seem to understand your own psychology very well.

runlets123 wrote:

STEVE THE ADDICT^^^^^^""""""""'"--';"- wrote:

Women (and girls under 18) are naturally attracted to men in position of authority. Couple this with spending a lot of time together and/or talking to each other and things can escalate. Believe me I know women very well and understand human psychology to the fullest extent. Just act like a man in an authoritative position in any setting and you can get women like Donald Trump.

Naturally attracted to men in positions of authority - WTF! You have no idea about women...you have no idea how manipulative these men are, they are sexual abusers, opportunists, power mad egotistical megalomaniacs who prey on vulnerable teenage girls. putting the blame on these women shows your complete lack of empathy or understanding

Meanwhile, the world's most powerful men are being lectured into draconian 'climate saving' measures that will cost trillions of dollars and millions of jobs, by an autistic teenage girl.

Coevett wrote:

runlets123 wrote:

Naturally attracted to men in positions of authority - WTF! You have no idea about women...you have no idea how manipulative these men are, they are sexual abusers, opportunists, power mad egotistical megalomaniacs who prey on vulnerable teenage girls. putting the blame on these women shows your complete lack of empathy or understanding

Meanwhile, the world's most powerful men are being lectured into draconian 'climate saving' measures that will cost trillions of dollars and millions of jobs, by an autistic teenage girl.

Are you saying there is a strong link between the activism of Greta Thunberg, and the resulting decisions and actions of international leaders ?

Mek12 wrote:

Coevett wrote:

Meanwhile, the world's most powerful men are being lectured into draconian 'climate saving' measures that will cost trillions of dollars and millions of jobs, by an autistic teenage girl.

Are you saying there is a strong link between the activism of Greta Thunberg, and the resulting decisions and actions of international leaders ?

To bring the thread back on theme I think we should introduce Rainer to Thunberg.