Rana Reider to be investigated by SafeSport over sexual misconduct claims

What actions should be take against someone who makes false accusations?

It's not the definition that has changed, its the fact that women now understand what is unacceptable behaviours by the 'powerful' men. This is exactly what happened in the USA gymnastics situation...the poor girls were confused and terrified, but once they heard one person's story, they realised their own.

Exactly the same with this.

And a sport that is balanced equally between it's athletes, it's incredibly unbalanced in it's leadership and coaching. There are very few women coaches and leaders that are there to support these female athletes, and let them know they will be listened to and supported. UKA have a history of ignoring abuse by their coaches and it took a woman CEO to come in and unravel all of this. There is no way those who are suspended now would be suspended or the RR story being highlighted publicity .

liar soorer wrote:

What actions should be take against someone who makes false accusations?

they should sanctioned - if it's proven false, then perhaps they should have their coaching or competition license taken away. But this isn't what we are dealing with

runlets123 wrote:

It's not the definition that has changed, its the fact that women now understand what is unacceptable behaviours by the 'powerful' men. This is exactly what happened in the USA gymnastics situation...the poor girls were confused and terrified, but once they heard one person's story, they realised their own.

Exactly the same with this.

And a sport that is balanced equally between it's athletes, it's incredibly unbalanced in it's leadership and coaching. There are very few women coaches and leaders that are there to support these female athletes, and let them know they will be listened to and supported. UKA have a history of ignoring abuse by their coaches and it took a woman CEO to come in and unravel all of this. There is no way those who are suspended now would be suspended or the RR story being highlighted publicity .

runlets123 wrote:

It's not the definition that has changed, its the fact that women now understand what is unacceptable behaviours by the 'powerful' men. This is exactly what happened in the USA gymnastics situation...the poor girls were confused and terrified, but once they heard one person's story, they realised their own.

Exactly the same with this.

And a sport that is balanced equally between it's athletes, it's incredibly unbalanced in it's leadership and coaching. There are very few women coaches and leaders that are there to support these female athletes, and let them know they will be listened to and supported. UKA have a history of ignoring abuse by their coaches and it took a woman CEO to come in and unravel all of this. There is no way those who are suspended now would be suspended or the RR story being highlighted publicity .

You have supported my views.

You are correct that women have changed their views as to what is acceptable.

Norms and values change; thanks for making that clear.

What else will change to capture normal behaviour?

Coaching is too too risky.

liar soorer wrote:

What actions should be take against someone who makes false accusations?

Swift punishment because false accusations make the true cases harder to prosecute. It is important, however, to differentiate between false accusations and accusations that cannot be proven. Only the former should be punished or the latter like any crime just means you can't prosecute.

runlets123 wrote:

liar soorer wrote:

What actions should be take against someone who makes false accusations?

they should sanctioned - if it's proven false, then perhaps they should have their coaching or competition license taken away. But this isn't what we are dealing with

How do you prove something false?

Please can you prove to me that it’s false to say the Easter Bunny exists.

coaching is only too risky because track and field in particular has allowed itself to be run by narcissistic sociopathic men who don't care for anything other than themselves or performances. It will need to go through a period of eradicating this behaviour so that the decent men and women can then lead the sport. Unfortunately the sport is still in a period of denial, and therefore it is going to take longer to pull these narcissists out and make the sport a better, safer and less risky place for all.

prove it please wrote:

runlets123 wrote:

they should sanctioned - if it's proven false, then perhaps they should have their coaching or competition license taken away. But this isn't what we are dealing with

How do you prove something false?

Please can you prove to me that it’s false to say the Easter Bunny exists.

It would be very indicative if the police found no evidence.

By and large you look for evidence that the bunny exists and if non can be found it is reasonable to assume that we can act on the assumption that it does not.

runlets123 wrote:

liar soorer wrote:

You have supported my views.

You are correct that women have changed their views as to what is acceptable.

Norms and values change; thanks for making that clear.

What else will change to capture normal behaviour?

Coaching is too too risky.

coaching is only too risky because track and field in particular has allowed itself to be run by narcissistic sociopathic men who don't care for anything other than themselves or performances. It will need to go through a period of eradicating this behaviour so that the decent men and women can then lead the sport. Unfortunately the sport is still in a period of denial, and therefore it is going to take longer to pull these narcissists out and make the sport a better, safer and less risky place for all.

You have avoided my point.

But what you say has much merit.However do you need to have such men to get great results? I have a feeling you may well do. Only time will tell.

Caring and healthy elite sport may well be an oxymoron.

It has always seems strange that we identify elite sport with a heathy body and mind.

gjghfhv wrote:

liar soorer wrote:

What actions should be take against someone who makes false accusations?

Swift punishment because false accusations make the true cases harder to prosecute. It is important, however, to differentiate between false accusations and accusations that cannot be proven. Only the former should be punished or the latter like any crime just means you can't prosecute.

I agree.

Unintentionally avoided:

What else will change to capture normal behaviour? Can you elaborate on this more...

If we need narcissistic sexual abusers to get great results...then do we really want to be a part of that? Do you really want to watch on TV or in a stadium an athlete winning gold knowing they have been abused in order to win?

Absolutely agree - being an elite athlete is certainly an unhealthy way to live...but that has nothing to do with being abused?

But Desiree Henry was not sleeping with him, of course.

runlets123 wrote:

Unintentionally avoided:

What else will change to capture normal behaviour? Can you elaborate on this more...

No idea ; as norms change as they have over the decades.

However let’s imagine that abuse will be seen as taking times and rests of repetition work and requiring improvement and shouting encouragement to give more on the last rep.

Because women don't make their own conscious decisions to sleep with manipulative sociopaths. Women are like little innocent lamb going to slaughter, always victims, never making up their own minds to sleep with who they want to sleep with, right?

You'll be the one to save them. You're the good one.

runlets123 wrote:

If we need narcissistic sexual abusers to get great results...then do we really want to be a part of that? Do you really want to watch on TV or in a stadium an athlete winning gold knowing they have been abused in order to win?

Absolutely agree - being an elite athlete is certainly an unhealthy way to live...but that has nothing to do with being abused?

Don’t quite keep the emphasis on sexual abusers; widen the application of abusers.

To encourage an unhealthy way to live may well be defined as abuse in the future if not already.

Ah ok, I understand.

There is certainly a grey area between pushing your athletes and being seen to be abusive. I'm not sure there is a clear answer to that other than the coach will have to work hard at building that positive relationship with their athletes in order to understand how they tick...and via vera.

But I still do think that is a seperate discussion to this one...sexual abuse, manipulation, controlling, emotional blackmail etc are all obvious abuses that have never been called into question in previous years.

runlets123 wrote:

Ah ok, I understand.

There is certainly a grey area between pushing your athletes and being seen to be abusive. I'm not sure there is a clear answer to that other than the coach will have to work hard at building that positive relationship with their athletes in order to understand how they tick...and via vera.

But I still do think that is a seperate discussion to this one...sexual abuse, manipulation, controlling, emotional blackmail etc are all obvious abuses that have never been called into question in previous years.

Your second para.

I agree that they have never been questioned in previous years and a lot of this was a blind eye was turned and a lot was just not recognised as abuse. Bit of a continuum but one our times are now viewing in an entirely different light.