Please mods...
Please mods...
Good work dude. Keep doing what you're doing.
DON'T LISTEN TO ANYONE HERE.
bikerun wrote:
Good work dude. Keep doing what you're doing.
DON'T LISTEN TO ANYONE HERE.
Why’d you write something if you told the OP “don’t listen to anyone here”?
Are you a special exception?
2:02:30
Interesting thread! And like others have said, thanks to Chad for being so transparent. And congrats on a great start to running.
Are you sure that the marathon is your strength in running? (Or maybe it's just the one that you want to do anyway, regardless of your strengths?)
One of the limitations of marathons is that it's hard to do many of them, and it's really easy for things to go really badly. At shorter distances, you can try out different things, and you can do so more often.
colinphillips wrote:
thanks to Chad for being so transparent.
We wasn’t transparent.
The thread title focuses on two things: a marathon result and mileage. He was dishonest about both.
His 2:30 “marathon” was on a ridiculous illegal course with a 1000-feet vertical drop. That’s like saying you ran a “4-minute mile” — when the time was in novelty downhill race. No, you didn’t.
The interesting part of the title is of course not someone running a “2:30 marathon” (which he didn’t do and isn’t newsworthy). It is the idea that someone did it “on 45 mpw”. But that is also a lie.
Multiple people have brought up that his training in relevant periods exceeded 80 mpw, but he has ignored them while answering other posts.
The OP was and is far from transparent.
Interesting transition. I did the opposite (semi pro 216/64 runner) who switched to fairly high level cycling as I hit 40 (mainly MTB and CX but some road). You are younger than me in your transition so that bodes well. I found that it took about 4 years of fairly serious riding with other strong riders to really 'feel' like a real cyclist. The biomechanical and neuromuscular adaptations take time, and the physiology/ musculature/ energy demands of the sports differ. There is much less 'explosive burst' requirement in marathon running vs cycling, so adapting to the long grind/ steady effort race profile will take time. Your body will also take time to 'redistribute' the necessary muscles and neuromuscular pathways.
I would agree with the others who say a sub 220 is a very reasonable goal. One thing to consider is that your mileage ramp up from 45mpw to 100mpw is very aggressive. Perhaps a more modest incremental increase combining some zone 1/2 longer work on the bike to maintain aerobic fitness is a more cautious approach. Given your frame and history of non weight bearing sport, a fast ramp up on bones that may not be used to it is high risk IMO.
A good friend of mine was a conti level rider in Europe and he has dabbled in the marathon with similar training volumes and gone sub 230 many times. I am sure that if he amped up his training he would comfortably hit sub 220.
Oops-- just read the part about the broken foot after I posted previously. Case in point I guess... sorry to have been proven right in this case.
One other aspect to consider that I have found to be increasingly important as I get older is strength training. I used to be able to get away with little/ none, but now I do year round strength (not just core but real lifting) at least twice per week. Lots of evidence to support this as critical to preserve muscle mass for athletes as they get in their late 30s.
dont swing for the fences yet wrote:
bikerun wrote:
Good work dude. Keep doing what you're doing.
DON'T LISTEN TO ANYONE HERE.
Why’d you write something if you told the OP “don’t listen to anyone here”?
Are you a special exception?
No, I'm a former biker, but although I trained with Pros, I was an amateur. And my marathon PB is only 2.29
chadracing1 wrote:
I'm a retired professional cyclist. I picked up running to stay in shaped after I stepped away from cycling. ...
First, nice first post.
Second, cycling is not running an vice versa. Running uses different muscle groups as cycling, some are overlapping. The muscles used for running have not enough mitochondria, capillarisation, glycogen store and so on there. So that has to be improved. If you want to become a serious runner you have to drop cycling in the long run.
Third, increasing your volume is the correct way. However be careful not to overdue it. Going savely from 40 to 80 mpw takes maybe 1-2 years. Don’t believe that volume can be compensated with intensity. Professional runners train 120 to 200 km/week (75 to 125 mpw) for marathon, there is more than enough science on that.
This post was removed.
Thanks for the continued responses! I'll go into a little more detail here
Digging through Strava to see my training can be time consuming. Here are my weekly running mile averages per month leading up to my 2:30 marathon: 36.5 in October 2019, 35.2 in November 2019, 43.9 in December 2019 and 40.3 in January 2020. I did incorporate some cycling in this build.
When I first transitioned to running I was very ignorant and thought I would be running sub 2:30 marathons in three months haha. The first three months were very tough! I started with some trail runs and a lot of elevation change. The downhills wrecked my body and I got bursitis so bad in my hip joints I thought I had broken my hips! I was hunched over like a little old man haha. Luckily I went to the doctor, hips weren't broken and two weeks of taking Naproxen cleared it up.
After that, I slowly ramped up my volume and floated around 25 to 30 mpw for a year or so(I'd have to go back and look to see exact mileage). I did incorporate a bit of riding in there too. Then I focused on getting in a couple good quality runs a week. Runs with time at or above target race pace. My body handled this mileage no prob.
Fast forward to this year and I have been able to significantly ramp up volume without any injury. I even hit a week over 90 miles with no issues. And I continue to ride a bit too. I had an accident when I rolled my foot and had a unfortunately broke it. This wasn't due to over-use, just a freak accident. When I broke it my training had been going well and I was building up to the Chicago marathon. I was super bummed!
I started riding my bike with my boot for my broken foot a week after the break. I slowly ramped up my cycling mileage during that time. I got up to a 17hr week of cycling. I had 7 weeks completely off of running. I'm currently in my 3rd week of easing back into running. I'm planning on incorporating cycling into my build up to the Houston marathon to maximize my endurance and hopefully make up for the lack of running mileage.
I really like Renato Canovas marathon training approach and will use that for inspiration when building my training plan. I'm a coach for cycling and I think I can effectively incorporate cycling into my training to help maximize my running potential. For me I think I need to try to incorporate as much time running at or above my target marathon pace as my body can handle. I think I have the aerobic capacity, but I need that neuromuscular adaptation to running. I think it will be an interesting experiment to incorporate cycling into my build to my next marathon. I utilize Trainingpeaks to build my training plans and I think their Performance Management chart is extremely useful for endurance sports for a number of reasons.
I've enjoyed seeing the responses to this thread! I was curious to see what everyone thought, especially since I had to skip the Chicago marathon. Which I think I could have ran a pretty fast time at. Running has been a fun new challenge and I enjoy experimenting with different training methodologies! I've been surprised at just how different cycling and running actually are!
Totally up to you but it would be fun if you updated this every week with your training. Those always make for the best threads (and it gives the armchair quarterbacks something to pick at!). Good luck with the ramp up!
Not sure if I can commit to posting once a week here, but I'll at least post a recap of what went right/ areas for improvement of my training after my next race.
This is already the best thread in the history of this board, even better than D3 girls' XC.
Chad, you're an inspiration.
I know you were a pro cyclist and no average road biker, but this also gives me hope as I always hear how little cycling fitness translates to running fitness (and, as a newer cyclist, I have had my butt kicked enough on bike rides to begin to believe this).
However, I get burned out with high-volume running and am really hoping to take my cycling to the next level and become a better runner at the same time.
You can likely go much faster
I'm not sure why people are getting on you about the accuracy of your claims. They seem in line to me. These are the facts that I've been able to see:
-For the only marathon you've done, you peaked at 45 mpw running. It's true that you may have done some cycling to supplement this and you clearly have a base much bigger than a normal new runner doing 45 mpw. But the statement is accurate.
-You ran a HM in 1:08, which is much better than a downhill 2:30 marathon in this recent cycle. This was on higher mileage and you were training for a marathon but got hurt and we don't know what you would have run, but a 1:08 converts to roughly a 2:26.
-The reason your title didn't mention the higher mileage for the HM is because you aren't interested in focusing on the half we never saw the result of what the mileage translated to for a full.
The only question I'd pose is: How do you know the marathon is your best event? That's a terrific time for a half. Not sure if you've ever run a 10k.
cool thread, as someone with a cycling background...not quite professional lol, but decent (think 4.5-4.8 w/kg FTP). I have struggled immensely with running economy and consistency. hoping to start a long and patient aerobic build soon working into a target marathon next year.
Hi Chad
A 1:08 HM corresponds to a 2:23 Marathon (and around a 30'30 10k). I'm co-founder of the Trenara running app, our algorithm is pretty good at estimating race times based on historical data.
Whether you'll run 2:23 or faster of course depends on your training plan. Like others have said: I wouldn't increase your mileage too much, there's probably a sweet spot between the mileage you did before that 1:08 half and the 100+ you're aiming at leading up to Houston.
Yes, there's the law of diminishing returns, but there's also a thing called recovery. I'd say: quality over quantity.
(You won't find a training plan in our app, since I haven't created plans for athletes at your performance level 😅)