10.5 is tough. I bet at his peak if he trained for the 100 as well would be close Nick Willis. Pretty sure he ran 11.1 or 11.2 with no blocks so with training…maybe
10.5 is tough. I bet at his peak if he trained for the 100 as well would be close Nick Willis. Pretty sure he ran 11.1 or 11.2 with no blocks so with training…maybe
Low Mileage Runner wrote:
Some names that I think of as the most likely to have been able to do this have not come up yet:
-Augustine Choge
-Earl Jones
Don’t think they would get 13:30 10.5 yes
michiganrunner55 wrote:
Low Mileage Runner wrote:
Some names that I think of as the most likely to have been able to do this have not come up yet:
-Augustine Choge
-Earl Jones
Don’t think they would get 13:30 10.5 yes
Well Choge might have a shot at 13:30 in his prime as he did run 12:53.
Who CAN do this?? wrote:
Alan Webb would probably come closest, I can see him getting 10.80 from a sprinters start with no blocks. If you gave Saruni some time I think he could get somewhere around 13:45 and 10.70, Brazier somewhere around 13:50 and 10.90, a prime Makhloufi maybe 10.75 and 13:45, Rudisha 10.90 and 13:45, Coe 10.95 and 13:50, Kerr 10.80 and his 13:23 PB, Centro would probably break 11 at his best, I'll give him 10.95. Korir should be the obvious choice but when you look at the way he runs his 400m races, he's more at the bottom of the list. Always uses his 800m strength to his advantage in the final 65 metres. Given the same conditions as the rest of the athletes I named, he could run 10.65 maybe, considerably ahead, but would probably run 13:50 in the 5K all the same. A prime Augustine Choge could run a 10.85. According to some YouTube channel Hocker closed his final 100m in 11.14 in NCAA indoors but that's obviously fake, still giving him the nod for sub 11. A bit surprised that Timothy Cheruiyot isn't in this conversation. I would have thought some idiot would bring up the fact that he went out in 52 and still ran 3:28 last year, but I'm pleased that he's not being talked about. He'd be lucky to break 11.35. He's still got more speed than Jakob though, I'll give him that. Jakob can run 11.8. Ovett's form immediately says no to sub 11, but not in such an extreme way like Jakob Ingebrigtsen, he could go 11.05-11.1 at his prime. Hicham El Guerrouj should be able to run 10.75 so maybe he's the best male 100/5000 runner of all? Lagat wouldn't be too far behind, should run 10.90. Morceli ran his 1:44.7 800m best at 21, 4 years before his prime so I'm guessing he could get 10.90-10.95. 2020 Wightman could go 11.20 and 13:50. Elliot Giles can run sub 11, 10.85, but his aerobic endurance needs some work to get sub 13:30, and combine that with rather stiff form and you'll probably get a 13:55 from him. Longest distance Lewandowski has raced is 2K and he was fine at that, ran 4:57. With a year of work, I can actually see him getting close to 13:30, but he can probably run only 11 flat in the 100. The other Pole, Adam Kzcshot, has really great speed - in the latter stages of a fast 800m race, only showing his extroadinary anaerobic/aerobic conditioning. 11.15 and 13:50 for him. So yeah, I'm done.
TL;DR: no one.
So we have Wayde, Kerley, and Norman, three of the best 400 runners ever, who can all run sub 9.95. According to you guys, the best that the greatest 800 runners of all time can do is 10.65 at the very best (most barely sub 11).
Moving from the 400 to the 800 and you lose seven tenths in 100m speed? Give me a break.
Nick Symmonds is the only right answer.
Karma Police wrote:
You ran say 11.7 and 50.5 from the sound of it. With that speed, Jakob would likely run 400 at 4 x his 100m time + 2, so 49-ish. The thing is, for these guys - they run almost as fast closing off an aerobic race as they do fresh from blocks. A 46 second 400m runner would obliterate Jakob in the first 200 of a fresh 400 from blocks.
Did you know Spencer Brown from the Athlete Special ran 49.2...in high school.
1:49 and 3:39.
Like I said, delusional.
Per slaaa's assertion on page 2, instead of focusing on the small club of fast distance guys (Coe, Kipketer, Rudisha, etc) who in the 200-800m speciality realm could go long?
Beach? 10.52/21.30/46.72/1:47.36/3:59
Scherer? 10.73/20.89/45.19/1:46.11
Jewett? 21.23/45.96/1:43.85/3:57
Harris? 21.82/1:44.42/3:58y
HARRIS.
I just realized distance runners are sorrowfully retarded...
99% of the mentioned names could not touch 10.5 FAT regardless of training.
That's why it's a bit stupid and interesting as a thread.
More reasonable would be 10.5 with running start and < 13:20
Falcon Spivey Aouita and go through on those from the OG.
Cruz and Cram at top form.
Lagat, El G, and Farah.
others of course
That was what. 2019 cole? Also not a very good representation of speed. 2021 cole outsprinted centro who had a huge lead. Hocker is fast and is insanely talented but also worked very hard for it.
Who CAN do this?? wrote:
Alan Webb would probably come closest, I can see him getting 10.80 from a sprinters start with no blocks.
Ovett's form immediately says no to sub 11, but not in such an extreme way like Jakob Ingebrigtsen, he could go 11.05-11.1 at his prime.
Hicham El Guerrouj should be able to run 10.75 so maybe he's the best male 100/5000 runner of all.
What nonsense.
El G had more basic speed than Ovett? If so then it's truly disappointing that he didn't run 3:23/12:20 with all that EPO inside of him.
According to Harry Wilson, Ovett's coach :
When Steve was in the middle of a 100 mile a week schedule, he was still running 60m indoors in about 7.2 or 7.3 seconds off a standing start.
Westlake Tavern Pizza wrote:
Per slaaa's assertion on page 2, instead of focusing on the small club of fast distance guys (Coe, Kipketer, Rudisha, etc) who in the 200-800m speciality realm could go long?
Beach? 10.52/21.30/46.72/1:47.36/3:59
Scherer? 10.73/20.89/45.19/1:46.11
Jewett? 21.23/45.96/1:43.85/3:57
Harris? 21.82/1:44.42/3:58y
HARRIS.
A “small club of fast distance guys” and the three you mention are all 800m world record holders, only one of whom could even be considered a distance runner…
I still know who wrote:
Karma Police wrote:
You ran say 11.7 and 50.5 from the sound of it. With that speed, Jakob would likely run 400 at 4 x his 100m time + 2, so 49-ish. The thing is, for these guys - they run almost as fast closing off an aerobic race as they do fresh from blocks. A 46 second 400m runner would obliterate Jakob in the first 200 of a fresh 400 from blocks.
Did you know Spencer Brown from the Athlete Special ran 49.2...in high school.
1:49 and 3:39.
Like I said, delusional.
So an endurance guy (clear from 400>800 and 800>1500 conversions) ran 49.2 in HS. He was maybe in 11.8 shape too.
11.8 for 100 converts to say 23.0 for 200 for a distance guy, and that converts to around 48.5-49 for 400. So I would say he was in 11.6-12.1 shape FAT from blocks.
Coevett wrote:
Who CAN do this?? wrote:
Alan Webb would probably come closest, I can see him getting 10.80 from a sprinters start with no blocks.
Ovett's form immediately says no to sub 11, but not in such an extreme way like Jakob Ingebrigtsen, he could go 11.05-11.1 at his prime.
Hicham El Guerrouj should be able to run 10.75 so maybe he's the best male 100/5000 runner of all.
What nonsense.
El G had more basic speed than Ovett? If so then it's truly disappointing that he didn't run 3:23/12:20 with all that EPO inside of him.
According to Harry Wilson, Ovett's coach :
When Steve was in the middle of a 100 mile a week schedule, he was still running 60m indoors in about 7.2 or 7.3 seconds off a standing start.
Hand time? First contact? Electronic timing? Assuming hand or electronic, it puts him at about 11.2-11.6 speed. I said Jakob would be around 11.8-12.0 (at best).
Seems to marry up pretty well. No way Jakob is beating Ovett over 100m.
OozmaKappa wrote:
Nick Symmonds is the only right answer.
Mark carroll as well 11 flat and 13:03
10.5 is just too fast. It requires too much propulsive strength. Look at a very small sprinter like Andre Degrasse. He is significantly more muscular than all long distance runners and almost all mid-d guys. And he’s an extreme outlier. I do think a few elite 800 guys would have a good shot at sub-11 if they switched their whole training regimen for a significant amount of time.
I still know who wrote:
Who CAN do this?? wrote:
Alan Webb would probably come closest, I can see him getting 10.80 from a sprinters start with no blocks. If you gave Saruni some time I think he could get somewhere around 13:45 and 10.70, Brazier somewhere around 13:50 and 10.90, a prime Makhloufi maybe 10.75 and 13:45, Rudisha 10.90 and 13:45, Coe 10.95 and 13:50, Kerr 10.80 and his 13:23 PB, Centro would probably break 11 at his best, I'll give him 10.95. Korir should be the obvious choice but when you look at the way he runs his 400m races, he's more at the bottom of the list. Always uses his 800m strength to his advantage in the final 65 metres. Given the same conditions as the rest of the athletes I named, he could run 10.65 maybe, considerably ahead, but would probably run 13:50 in the 5K all the same. A prime Augustine Choge could run a 10.85. According to some YouTube channel Hocker closed his final 100m in 11.14 in NCAA indoors but that's obviously fake, still giving him the nod for sub 11. A bit surprised that Timothy Cheruiyot isn't in this conversation. I would have thought some idiot would bring up the fact that he went out in 52 and still ran 3:28 last year, but I'm pleased that he's not being talked about. He'd be lucky to break 11.35. He's still got more speed than Jakob though, I'll give him that. Jakob can run 11.8. Ovett's form immediately says no to sub 11, but not in such an extreme way like Jakob Ingebrigtsen, he could go 11.05-11.1 at his prime. Hicham El Guerrouj should be able to run 10.75 so maybe he's the best male 100/5000 runner of all? Lagat wouldn't be too far behind, should run 10.90. Morceli ran his 1:44.7 800m best at 21, 4 years before his prime so I'm guessing he could get 10.90-10.95. 2020 Wightman could go 11.20 and 13:50. Elliot Giles can run sub 11, 10.85, but his aerobic endurance needs some work to get sub 13:30, and combine that with rather stiff form and you'll probably get a 13:55 from him. Longest distance Lewandowski has raced is 2K and he was fine at that, ran 4:57. With a year of work, I can actually see him getting close to 13:30, but he can probably run only 11 flat in the 100. The other Pole, Adam Kzcshot, has really great speed - in the latter stages of a fast 800m race, only showing his extroadinary anaerobic/aerobic conditioning. 11.15 and 13:50 for him. So yeah, I'm done.
TL;DR: no one.
So we have Wayde, Kerley, and Norman, three of the best 400 runners ever, who can all run sub 9.95. According to you guys, the best that the greatest 800 runners of all time can do is 10.65 at the very best (most barely sub 11).
Moving from the 400 to the 800 and you lose seven tenths in 100m speed? Give me a break.
Yes. There’s a huge difference between a 400 and an 800. 10.65 would be very, very, very optimistic for Rudisha, Coe, etc.
This is a great thread because being able to run 13:30 and 10.5 are such different strengths and clearly has sparked a passionate discussion. While the distance runners might under estimate how hard it is to break 10.5 from the blocks running at 11.2 or even 11 flat isn’t all that remarkable and doesn’t require an insane amount of muscle or explosive strength. To say someone like Coe or Cram or Jakob couldn’t break 12 seconds if they trained and wore modern shoes is BS, we had a half dozen kids on my HS track team that were well under 12 and they weren’t all that good in the grand scheme of things. Yes it will be easier to run in the low 11s if you are taller and lift weights vs being of slighter build like what is ideal for distance. However just like Robert Cheruiyot and Alan Culpper had success at the marathon despite being tall, Maurice Green was a successful sprinter despite being on the shorter side. Could Jakob ever run a 100m in 10.5 likely not but to say he couldn’t hit the mid to low 11s with some training and weight lifting is absurd.
A kid named bernie montoya once upon a time....never knew what happened to him, hope he is well
roho the ho wrote:
So we have Wayde, Kerley, and Norman, three of the best 400 runners ever, who can all run sub 9.95. According to you guys, the best that the greatest 800 runners of all time can do is 10.65 at the very best (most barely sub 11).
Moving from the 400 to the 800 and you lose seven tenths in 100m speed? Give me a break.
Yes. There’s a huge difference between a 400 and an 800. 10.65 would be very, very, very optimistic for Rudisha, Coe, etc.[/quote]
I'll agree we don't have a good enough 400 time from Rudisha or Coe to ensure sub 10.5. However, any reasonably coordinated elite runner could get down a solid start from blocks in a few months if they had a proper sprints coach and put in the time. So I definitely still wouldn't count out Rudisha, especially since he's 6'3". Coe couldn't do it.
What are your thoughts on Gil Roberts (10.12) and Rai Benjamin (10.03), who both have a slower 400 pb than Korir?
I can say with 100% certainty Korir could go sub 10.5. However, I'm not sure what his chances are of going 13:30, let alone simultaneously with a 10.5.
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