Any evidence that shoe drop matters for anything in running?

In my experience, decreasing the drop allows to engage more the calves muscles. This relieves the stress on the knees and moves it to the heels. It also allows to run a bit faster, so races from the mile down are generally run in zero-drop shoes.

For people with knee problems, the low drop may be beneficial, as long as their ankles/calves can tolerate the extra stress. For people with Achilles or plantar fascia problems, it can be a killer.

mid D guy wrote:

In my experience, decreasing the drop allows to engage more the calves muscles. This relieves the stress on the knees and moves it to the heels. It also allows to run a bit faster, so races from the mile down are generally run in zero-drop shoes.

For people with knee problems, the low drop may be beneficial, as long as their ankles/calves can tolerate the extra stress. For people with Achilles or plantar fascia problems, it can be a killer.

Depends on the root cause of the Achilles problems. I had insertional achilles issues due to hip stability/control issues and Altra’s help keep my Achilles issues away.

Nice thread as you can see everyone is different on that note different is a good stimulus.

As someone noted drop is dynamic I've had 10mm pegasus soften up after 25 miles that feel lower than firmer 8mm saucony rides. There is a place for lower drop I've used vans and various skate shoes for work and general wear having 10mm stack and zero drop. It's good for actively stretching.

Altra, kinvara, etc can have a place for drills shorter runs but going up to a general trainer I've experienced diminished returns from overuse.

Lower drop = more stress on lower legs and feet (though oddly better for medial shin splints)

Higher drop = more stress on knees

Hokas = more stress on hips and low back (rocker sole makes it so you can't use your foot muscles)

I rotate through different drops to minimize injury. For speed, I find it WAY more work to run fast in Altras or a zero drop shoe. May be better mechanically, but super inefficient if you want to run fast.

Definitely not a typo. I know this is counterintuitive for many, but I know of other like me. Zero drop seems to meet my calves, Achilles, and whole posterior chain working properly.

norsenorske wrote:

Definitely not a typo. I know this is counterintuitive for many, but I know of other like me. Zero drop seems to meet my calves, Achilles, and whole posterior chain working properly.

Same here. In my experience, low- or zero-drop shoes allow the foot to pronate more naturally (i.e., fully) during the stance phase than high-drop shoes do. And that more complete pronation takes some of the eccentric strain off of the achilles, particularly where it inserts at the calcaneus.

I think that may be why the lower-drop shoes seem to alleviate some of my Haglund's pain, as counterintuitive as that seems.

Useful thread, thanks.

I've been having plantar issues in my Saucony Freedom 3 (4mm) but generally like the feel. We'll see if my new Triumph 18s (6mm) feel any different. Probably not, 2mm and foam on both is the squishy Powerrun+ they offer, so probably dynamic, according to this thread.

shoe drop only matters in isolation if the shoe is shape like a wedge, which means a 10mm drop shoe would be like running on a 10mm gradient downhill

but then shoes have differing geometries, motion control and stability elements, stiffening elements to prevent flattening from plantar forces etc.

while it seems to reduce dorsiflexion demands in static standing, when you actually run the wedge tips your center of gravity over your planted forefoot which causes an even higher dorsiflexion/pronation velocity during stance via shin angle change. the opposite, a positive drop shoe, would increase passive dorsiflexion demands statically but reduced dorsiflexion velocity during running.

keep in mind track spikes have an effective drop around 20-50mm.

the vaporfly are rated at 8mm but the S shape plate shape gives it an effective drop closer to 20+

a 4mm hoka has a rigid, rockered profile so it rides more like a higher drop shoe

even the 0mm altras have toe springs and stiffening elements that makes it ride like a higher drop shoe

IMO a high effective drop is good because it:

+ reduces the metabolic cost of running (propulsion phase assisted by gravity)

+ exposes you to higher eccentric impact forces during stance phase

so your training leads to adaptations more in running economy then 'compensatory' cardiac conditioning, making you a better runner. it works almost like a form of overspeed training used in short distance track

a low drop shoe (which doesn't really exist outside of smooth brained super flexible minimalist shoe brands)

+ bias the training of compensatory cardiac conditioning (might as well ride a bike)

+ bias the training of concentric force production/acceleration (might as well lift weights)

+ reduce eccentric loading (surprise, your minimalist shoe is actually a stability shoe when in motion lmao)

I would echo the last comment, depending on the size of the shoe the slope would be different for a 5mm drop if the length was 20cm or 30cm. Human were born to walk long distance without shoes so zero drop is expected, even sprinting or slow endurance running, however long fast running is something is not natural and requires us to do a lot of specific training to achieve, therefore is stands to reason whatever imbalances we have or what we are use to will dictate how much heel to toe drop we need to be successful and “pain” free

takethelift wrote:

while it seems to reduce dorsiflexion demands in static standing, when you actually run the wedge tips your center of gravity over your planted forefoot which causes an even higher dorsiflexion/pronation velocity during stance via shin angle change. the opposite, a positive drop shoe, would increase passive dorsiflexion demands statically but reduced dorsiflexion velocity during running.

keep in mind track spikes have an effective drop around 20-50mm.

the vaporfly are rated at 8mm but the S shape plate shape gives it an effective drop closer to 20+

a 4mm hoka has a rigid, rockered profile so it rides more like a higher drop shoe

even the 0mm altras have toe springs and stiffening elements that makes it ride like a higher drop shoe

Hmm, I must admit I don’t quite understand your two points above:

(1) Are you saying that higher drop increases “dorsiflexion velocity” but does reduce the dorsiflexion (angle) itself? Or are you saying the dorsiflexion angle in the stance phase is the same but the pressure or demand is higher because of velocity? I don’t see how a higher drop by itself can increase the dorsiflexion angle, but the shoe’s plantar surface relief can understandably increase pronation and thereby increase dorsiflexion slightly.

(2) How exactly is “effective drop” defined or measured?

norsenorske wrote:

Definitely not a typo. I know this is counterintuitive for many, but I know of other like me. Zero drop seems to meet my calves, Achilles, and whole posterior chain working properly.

Ditto. I also use barefoot style shoes 100% outside of running. Helps immensely with foot strength. Regular work on a moboboard also helps. Ever since I switched to barefoot style shoes I have zero issues with Altra’s for any type of run. Escalante racer is a fine long run shoe choice (not my go to for most though, prefer Rivera or Torin 5 for easy long runs) and is my race shoe for my marathon this coming weekend.

This may help you:

https://runrepeat.com/guides/heel-to-toe-drop

if you run on soft surfaces you wont notice any difference...0 or 12 drop