If Connor Mantz wins the NCAAs this year, would you consider him the greatest collegiate cross country runner ever?

I'm not sure if this is just trolling or another example of recency bias. Putting the question of age aside, Connor hasn't won this year's championship yet and a lot can happen in any given race. I agree with previous posters, winning one championship does not the greatest of all time make.

I also appreciate Nick Rose being called out, sometimes you can have a second place finisher who in most years might have won. I think about Dick Beardsley finishing seconds behind Alberto Salazar in the 82 Boston Marathon in American record beating time. In fact Beardsley's 1982 Boston time would have stood as the American record for over a decade had it not been for Salazar beating him by 2 seconds.

Gets a hit for age wrote:

We all know that for 10,000 meters you are not at your peak at age 21/22/23. You can maybe give me a couple examples of someone who didn't get faster, but the vast majority of people who have a long career in running do not run their best at 10,000 meters at 21/22/23 years of age. I ran 28:30 at age 24, a couple years after college. In college I only ran 28:59. I was not All-American, but if I ran the way I did at age 24 and was still in college, I'd probably be all-american.

Do your other PRs include 13:50, 62-high, and 2:12-low?

colder and wiser wrote:

Connor's Lance wrote:

And if he wins again next year, how amazing would that be? The guy is simply amazing and I am not even a BYU fan.

I hate troll posts like this. They heap excessive praise on someone or something only with the intent of setting up that person for abuse from other commenters. It's cowardly and dishonest. If you have a problem with Mantz, own up to it instead of hiding behind other commenters.

That's the point of trolling. What are you not getting?

Charles Bukowski wrote:

colder and wiser wrote:

I hate troll posts like this. They heap excessive praise on someone or something only with the intent of setting up that person for abuse from other commenters. It's cowardly and dishonest. If you have a problem with Mantz, own up to it instead of hiding behind other commenters.

That's the point of trolling. What are you not getting?

Trolls are warped!

Ches finished 3rd behind Tiernan and Knight his senior year

Connor's Lance wrote:

And if he wins again next year, how amazing would that be? The guy is simply amazing and I am not even a BYU fan.

8/10

Has anyone older than 55 won NCAAs before?

birdbeard wrote:

Connor's Lance wrote:

Why would you put Kennedy above Pre and Lindgren?

Strength of competition, although it's arguable for sure. The NCAA didn't really start to get a ton more competitive with an influx of international athletes until the mid-90s, but it had started by Kennedy's years (88-92).

No, there were a ton of international athletes back beginning into the mid 70's. Nick Rose was better than the guys Kennedy ran against. Bob won during a stretch where several Americans won, that tells you all you need to know. Those were the weaker years of the last 40+.

Nico is laying a foundation for his brothers to really mount a challenge to the Mantz dynasty in a few years time

anonymoose wrote:

Nico is laying a foundation for his brothers to really mount a challenge to the Mantz dynasty in a few years time

Nico is the Henrik of the Young family.

Ches was third in 2016

anonymoose wrote:

Nico is laying a foundation for his brothers to really mount a challenge to the Mantz dynasty in a few years time

Mantz will be able to reclaim his dynasty because he will still be at BYU long after the Young brothers finish at NAU.

Was Mantz at BYU when Kennedy was at Indiana?

This is Jim Kiler wrote:

What about the Master's Division?

💣

Gets a hit for age wrote:

Tripped wrote:

Bekele broke the 5k world record at the age 22. He never ran faster! 20 year old Jakob just won the gold beating all those old 25year olds! If anything they should give 24/25 year olds a handicap. They’re over the hill! Let them start 20 seconds before everyone else.

We all know that for 10,000 meters you are not at your peak at age 21/22/23. You can maybe give me a couple examples of someone who didn't get faster, but the vast majority of people who have a long career in running do not run their best at 10,000 meters at 21/22/23 years of age. I ran 28:30 at age 24, a couple years after college. In college I only ran 28:59. I was not All-American, but if I ran the way I did at age 24 and was still in college, I'd probably be all-american.

Bekele ran his 10k pr at age 23. I’ll look at the best in the world not some 28 minute guy.

There should be a masters race for 24/25 year olds. Also their times should be age graded down to account for their arthritis. They’re at such a huge disadvantage to the youngsters.

I think Connor isn't in the conversation for GOAT unless there is some development that makes a win this year much more impressive than his win last year. If he outkicks Kiptoo in a new NCAA XC record time, and then he or Kiptoo break 27 or something during the track season, then I think it's safe to say Mantz is the GOAT XC runner.

I think it'll take something extraordinary even for an NCAA XC Championship race just because Connor is way older than most (all?) guys who have won. Ritz was 4th as a freshman and won as a junior, he probably could've won it again the next year had he not gone pro. Just that is more impressive than what Mantz has done IMO.

Bobby Kennedy went to UVA

It's impressive Mantz can win like he does, getting up before 4 a.m. every day.

Peach Pit wrote:

I think Connor isn't in the conversation for GOAT unless there is some development that makes a win this year much more impressive than his win last year. If he outkicks Kiptoo in a new NCAA XC record time, and then he or Kiptoo break 27 or something during the track season, then I think it's safe to say Mantz is the GOAT XC runner.

I think it'll take something extraordinary even for an NCAA XC Championship race just because Connor is way older than most (all?) guys who have won. Ritz was 4th as a freshman and won as a junior, he probably could've won it again the next year had he not gone pro. Just that is more impressive than what Mantz has done IMO.

Mantz isn't running sub 28:07 and he most definitely is not breaking 27 minutes.

old man mantz wrote:

anonymoose wrote:

Nico is laying a foundation for his brothers to really mount a challenge to the Mantz dynasty in a few years time

Mantz will be able to reclaim his dynasty because he will still be at BYU long after the Young brothers finish at NAU.

Was Mantz at BYU when Kennedy was at Indiana?

Rono was a 24-year old freshman, but I didn't see any comment from you regarding him being listed as #1. Rono was a fantastic runner, people enjoyed watching him run and I rarely heard comments about his age. Maybe if he had been a Kenyan Mormon, it would have been different.