Getting ready to turn 60, and setting a goal to break 5 minutes in the Mile.

old guy II wrote:

Charlie wrote:

Nevertheless, the rate of attrition is pretty high after about age 45.

Seems like starting with age group 60 the ranks thin by 50 percent every 5 years

https://mastersrankings.com/rankings/

My long term strategy is to always save some for latter. Going to the well year after year will create health issues and ultimately result in a faster rate of slowing down. Dialing it back a hair or two is best over the long haul.

Charlie, a while back I reviewed the results from out local XC series, which has been going on for almost 25 years now, I found that starting with the 55-59 age group, the number of competitors in each age group decreased by right about 1/3 for each successive 5 year age group.

Perfect! I turn 55 in a few days. Maybe I should race every distance up to 5000m :^)

Actually that sounds kind of fun. I should see what’s on tap indoors this winter—before my body completely breaks down. I could do a 60, 200, 400, and 800 indoors...first meet is mid-Dec and I will be traveling, F!

East Coast poor wrote:

Time Waster wrote:

4 pages and still nothing from the OP. What a troll job.

Correct, we've all been trolled.

Lots of interesting replies so what ever the OPs intentions in the end this was a good thread!

Charlie wrote:

East Coast poor wrote:

[quote]Time Waster wrote:

4 pages and still nothing from the OP. What a troll job.

Lots of interesting replies so what ever the OPs intentions in the end this was a good thread!

Agreed. Still amazing how little perspective some runners have, even us older 'wiser' ones. A poster mentioned how a sub 5:00 mile in your 60s would likely win the Master's World Championships. You'd think that would alert most as to what we're up against here.

Charlie wrote:

East Coast poor wrote:

Correct, we've all been trolled.

Lots of interesting replies so what ever the OPs intentions in the end this was a good thread!

Yeah, I agree. Let's just turn this into a general thread about sub 5 minute mile training and racing over age 50 or 60.....carry on!

kmaclam wrote:

Charlie wrote:

Lots of interesting replies so what ever the OPs intentions in the end this was a good thread!

Agreed. Still amazing how little perspective some runners have, even us older 'wiser' ones. A poster mentioned how a sub 5:00 mile in your 60s would likely win the Master's World Championships. You'd think that would alert most as to what we're up against here.

Maybe you all train too hard? Tommy Hughes doesn’t train hard.

Some perspective

World Class time for the mile, say 3.45 x 1.2 = 4.30

World Class time for the marathon 2.05 x 1.2 = 2.30

Tommy Hughes M60 time was 2.30.02 he has raised the bar to where I've been thinking it should be for a long time. I want to see the same thing for the mile/1500.

I actually hope the OP isn't trolling and has a good go at sub 5 in 2022

I agree this was an interesting discussion and that reaching a sub 5;00 minute mile is quite an accomplishment for a someone 60 or older may be much more difficult than the OP realizes. However, I think there's a lot of standpoint that are plane inaccurate. A person doesn't have to have been a 4:10 runner in college to be able to run fast in their 50s or 60s. I was an okay runner in high school but didn't run seriously for over 20 years after my junior year and ran much faster times at 40 and 41 than I was did at 17 or in the entirety of my 20s and 30s. I know many other older runners who either switched to running from other sports or took to the spot later in life who have had great masters and age graded times.

While it may not be possible for most people to break 5:00 at 60 no matter how much they train whether they can or not isn't necessarily tied to past performance.

In terms of what it would take as many have mentioned older runners tend to do better relative to their younger peers in the longer distances, this is because at those distances lower body weight and stamina can compensate for lack of muscle. Men lose testosterone as they age and as a result it is much harder to build and maintain muscle mass. This is why weight lifting is now highly recommended for older adults and even a very light weight regimen for those in their 70s and 80s has numerous health and longevity benefits.

The best thing an older runner can do in addition to having a good running training plan is to lift weights, in fact I would argue for the mile and shorter distances this is as important as track workouts b/c of the muscle loss due to natural aging issue.

Look at the current masters 55 record for the 100M it's 11.3 seconds by Willie Gault, that's a slow ass time for a high school male and significantly slower than the women's high school 100M record of 10.98. On the contrary the men's 55 masters record for 10K road race is 31:40 by Martin Fiz and 10,000 meter track masters 55 record is 31:51 these are over a minute faster than the girls high school 10K record of 32:52 and would hold up pretty good in a high school 10K race in any given year, certainly not a record by any means but much closer to the fastest high school boys than the masters 55+ runners are to the high school boys in 100M

vtob wrote:

46 year-old here and just ran 4:31 feeling good.

Stud! Nice work.

Breaking 5 at 60 is certainly possible. The last time I broke 5 was at age 57 in practice. And I was not a miler or blessed with speed. At 66, according to some of training this past summer, I was ready to possibly run 5:10 or faster. The key is to get your speed down without getting injured. That's where the luck comes in. You obviously need to have a good endurance base before taking on the speed. Then build up. I remember a year ago I was doing 200's at 40 seconds. Then I worked down to 37-38 (5 minute pace). I then kept that pace over 300 meters. Finally by mid this last summer, I did 4 400's 72-74 seconds. I did end up running good 5 and 10k's but no 1500 or mile. So again. It's being able to handle the fast training without getting injured. So start with 200's and work up to 400's at 5 min. pace. If you can do that, you'll have a shot at it.

This has gotten away from the (likely troll) OP, but...

I'm almost 44 and I don't do basically any speed work because I get injured from it very easily. I had decent speed and explosiveness when I was younger, but now I just run mostly easy. I ran a 5:15 1500 this summer off no specific training and 30-35 mpw. I'd like to dip under 5:00 (among other goals) so I've been working on building up mileage. Ultimately I'd also like a sub-5 full mile, but I'll need to ramp up the work bigtime to get there.

I'm also training for a sub-3 marathon and I realize that some of the training stimuli would be at odds with each other. So I'm prioritizing mileage and tempo work over real speed (the most speed workout I'll do is something like repeat 400s). Hoping that by getting to 60 mpw with some tempos and MP runs sprinkled in for a period of time I'll be able to do both the sub-3 marathon and certainly sub-5 1500 and MAYBE full mile.

Thanks Charlie.

I've been primarily a 5k-marathon runner for a long time and feel like there's some untapped speed still there - maybe. Appreciate the training advice.

Most areas have groups of old geezers who run track on Sunday. See if you can hook up with them and start regular workouts. :-)

Just before the pandemic hit, I trained hard and ran a BQ marathon at age 62, beating my age group qualifier by over 16 minutes--and I was pumped.

Since then I've been unable to resume training due to an bad Achilles injury. It's finally coming around 19 months later.

My training mistake: I was throwing it down pretty hard twice a week over a 4-month marathon buildup. My advice for runners around 60 years old: Do only one HARD workout per week (and take a day off.)

J. Daniels in his book 'Running Formula ' 4th edition, has a table included which is called Vdot tables for runners aged 18-80, 1600m times. There are 10 levels (novice, intermediate, good and elite)

With 60yo male 1600m running, 5:16 is level 9 (elite) and 04:53 is level 10 (elite) and the highest ranking. At age 62yo 05:00 is level 10.

As the 1500m has a 80/20% (male) aerobic/anaerobic energy system contribution, the question is which proportion the training should have, because longer and slower aerobic running is easier and safer if we age.

old guy II wrote:

Charlie wrote:

Nevertheless, the rate of attrition is pretty high after about age 45.

Seems like starting with age group 60 the ranks thin by 50 percent every 5 years

https://mastersrankings.com/rankings/

My long term strategy is to always save some for latter. Going to the well year after year will create health issues and ultimately result in a faster rate of slowing down. Dialing it back a hair or two is best over the long haul.

Charlie, a while back I reviewed the results from out local XC series, which has been going on for almost 25 years now, I found that starting with the 55-59 age group, the number of competitors in each age group decreased by right about 1/3 for each successive 5 year age group.

My plan for world dominance, outlive my competitors. 😹

uh huh wrote:

kmaclam wrote:

Agreed. Still amazing how little perspective some runners have, even us older 'wiser' ones. A poster mentioned how a sub 5:00 mile in your 60s would likely win the Master's World Championships. You'd think that would alert most as to what we're up against here.

Maybe you all train too hard? Tommy Hughes doesn’t train hard.

Some perspective

World Class time for the mile, say 3.45 x 1.2 = 4.30

World Class time for the marathon 2.05 x 1.2 = 2.30

Tommy Hughes M60 time was 2.30.02 he has raised the bar to where I've been thinking it should be for a long time. I want to see the same thing for the mile/1500.

I actually hope the OP isn't trolling and has a good go at sub 5 in 2022

Tommy Hughes does train pretty hard. Usually hitting around 120 miles per week in mostly 2 runs per day, pace around 6.30 to 7.00 pace. Races most weekends rather than doing much speedwork. Weekly long run of 20 to 26 miles. He ran 2.13 back in the day so also has a bit of talent.

Ramp up slowly. Do uphills on grass rather than a second tough workout per week. Hit the pool if you even have the slightest injury.

tlbernhard wrote:

I ran a 4:59.42 on the track at age 60 in 2011. At the time that age-graded to a 92.45%. Anything >90% is considered world class.

World Masters Athletics has put together new Age Grade standards (not yet approved). A 4:59.42 would now age grade at 90.37%.

https://mastersrankings.com/

Masters Rankings has never done all-time lists for the Mile, but I think about 5 Americans 60 & over have broken 5:00 with the latest being Dan King.

2015 AG are not accurate- especially so in 55+ groups.

World class is a debatable category. Is it based on AG %, likelihood of winning a medal at WC, or just making a final- perhaps top 10 in your age group for the year or maybe top 40 all time? Who knows. 2022 factors has M60 mile 90% at 5:00.66. I'd say that is pretty accurate. 2015 factors show 92.06%.

I'd like to hit 90% in 800 in a couple years at age 55. I'd barely make a world champs final with that time. 2:10 = 90.45%. That time was about 10th in the world in 2018-2019.

Some events are much more competitive than others, so world class may be much harder in the M55 200m than the M60 2k steeple, for example. A 24.50 200m (90.36%),might get you ranked 10th in the world some years M55-59, whereas a 2k 8:00 M60 steeple may get you 10th in the world. Just 77.67%- 2022 factors.

One of the highest Age graded performances this year was a 25.07 200m by a 55 year old Australian female. 98.93% 2022 factors open equivalent 21.86. I'm sold on the 2022 calculator. No way a 25.07 would be a 107.22% or a 19.90. 2015 factors

In the middle distances 90-91% might be world class territory.

Everyone continues to get faster.

"Something that the youngsters do not seem to understand, is that, at an older age, training for long distances is much more forgiving on the body. The kind of training required to run a fast mile is extremely likely to lead to injury. So why Tommy would risk ending his running career just to check if his body is able to handle mile training? In an ideal world, where nobody gets injured, there would be a bunch of 60 yo running sub-5. In the real world, it takes very good genetics, a ton of cross training and a very smart plan just to manage to get to the starting line.[/quote]

Pretty much sums it up. Well said, mid D guy!

hayward field wrote:

"Something that the youngsters do not seem to understand, is that, at an older age, training for long distances is much more forgiving on the body. The kind of training required to run a fast mile is extremely likely to lead to injury. So why Tommy would risk ending his running career just to check if his body is able to handle mile training? In an ideal world, where nobody gets injured, there would be a bunch of 60 yo running sub-5. In the real world, it takes very good genetics, a ton of cross training and a very smart plan just to manage to get to the starting line.

Pretty much sums it up. Well said, mid D guy![/quote]

Sorry, I completely disagree. You're obviously doing it wrong.

'mopac wrote:

uh huh wrote:

Maybe you all train too hard? Tommy Hughes doesn’t train hard.

Some perspective

World Class time for the mile, say 3.45 x 1.2 = 4.30

World Class time for the marathon 2.05 x 1.2 = 2.30

Tommy Hughes M60 time was 2.30.02 he has raised the bar to where I've been thinking it should be for a long time. I want to see the same thing for the mile/1500.

I actually hope the OP isn't trolling and has a good go at sub 5 in 2022

Tommy Hughes does train pretty hard. Usually hitting around 120 miles per week in mostly 2 runs per day, pace around 6.30 to 7.00 pace. Races most weekends rather than doing much speedwork. Weekly long run of 20 to 26 miles. He ran 2.13 back in the day so also has a bit of talent.

He stays injury free, so he must be training smart.

I always found that the best way to recover is to build up slowly. That way you can eventually do huge training loads and recover very quickly.