Goal of intervals.

You might get more useful responses if you take the time to compose a sharper paragraphical organization of your thoughts and a more precise phrasing of the question you are trying to ask.

Different types of interval training have different purposes, some to speed up recovery. some to push the lactate threshold etc.

Geezus.

Way TLDR.

Intervals: Run fast, die young. I'm here for a good time not a long time. Stride it buddy.

An interval is the rest period between repeats. The point of the interval is to rest between repeats.

Couple smallish points:

1. "Pure [top] speed" is not developed by 150s, or even by 100s.

But I'm pretty sure you meant any workout that focuses on *high* speed, with rest intervals long enough to produce full or near-full recovery. Workouts with such long recoveries used to be called repetition workouts--that may clash with Jack Daniels's use of "repetition" now, I don't know--and all or almost all of the desired adaptations are prompted by what happens within the workbout itself.

2. Interval workouts, going all the way back to the pulse-up-to-180-down-to-120-and-repeat workouts of Gerschler and Reindel, prompt adaptation through the *alternation* of work and recovery--it's the *combination* of the two that produces improved fitness. In particular G&R looked at improving the stroke volume of the heart through this combination. But that has limitations--the heart can stretch only so much, obviously--so though they produced some tremendous results, especially in the 800 and shorter, after a certain amount of time a plateau was reached.

3. When Jim Ryun was running quarters in high school, they started every three minutes--which accommodated the needs and timing of a large squad of runners with very diverse abilities.

[Forty of those quarters consumed two hours--but they were typically run in sets of ten, with a mile jog between sets, so we're talking more like 2.5 hours. Add warmup and cooldown and you have three hours-plus for a workout.]

But running a quarter in, say, 70 seconds (typical for Ryun in this kind of workout) meant 110 seconds for rest interval, far too much for quarters at ~two-mile pace. Very little time would be spent at threshold.

...Except that the "rest" intervals in that program were spent doing other exercise: lifting weights, running against resistance cables, calisthenics, whatever. This served to keep the pulse elevated so that, when the next quarter began, it was possible to get to threshold almost immediately.

Interesting discussion of this stuff here (browse around):

https://www.newintervaltraining.com/old-interval-training.php

rest wrote:

An interval is the rest period between repeats. The point of the interval is to rest between repeats.

Useless smartass post.

bigmig19 wrote:

Sometimes when I have time to think I become a bit philosophical about training.

Question: to the extent that threshold training is hard, comfortable enough that you can do it without redlining, by extension how do you guys look at recovery during intervals?

Which is to say, let's say you're doing 400 m intervals. For purposes of this discussion will use a traditional definition of intervals that is a VO2 Max type workout roughly 3K pace. I always hear that professionals start decreasing their rest as they start getting in better and better shape. So what determines that? Are they watching to see their heart rate fall to some level of recovery or do you want an incomplete recovery so that you can get right back into the purpose of the workout? Clear as mud?

When your breathing returns to resting levels, your recovery interval is complete. However long that takes, it should stay more or less constant. It shouldn't get longer, if it does, stop the session or re- arrange it.

To incur a big oxygen debt

Train other energy systems

Teach you to run fast

Oxygen debt running 400s @ 3k pace is very small.

I also use intervals to get athlete's comfortable running at medium-intensity paces. It's a good tool with younger or less experienced runners, who are still learning what paces between "easy" and "all-out" feel like. It allows them to maintain better form and cadence without getting too anaerobic.

For example, you might do:

* 800s @ tempo pace with 30 seconds rest

* 300s @ 5k pace with 100 meter walk rest

* Sets of 4-6x 150s @ 3k/1500 pace with 50 meters rest

Y'all probably think this is the dumbest $h!t since Coach JS, but for n00b runners, or runners coming back from a long injury, these kinds of workouts can really help with learning paces.

I believe the ultimate goal of intervals is to make you faster so that you spend the least amount of time to get from point A to point B.

Strawman Elite wrote:

I also use intervals to get athlete's comfortable running at medium-intensity paces. It's a good tool with younger or less experienced runners, who are still learning what paces between "easy" and "all-out" feel like. It allows them to maintain better form and cadence without getting too anaerobic.

For example, you might do:

* 800s @ tempo pace with 30 seconds rest

* 300s @ 5k pace with 100 meter walk rest

* Sets of 4-6x 150s @ 3k/1500 pace with 50 meters rest

Y'all probably think this is the dumbest $h!t since Coach JS, but for n00b runners, or runners coming back from a long injury, these kinds of workouts can really help with learning paces.

So this was the point of my post. We are seeing dramatically different interpretations of the word intervals. Some are clearly describing threshold runs. Jack Daniels for one felt that a true interval session (VO2 max session) is best done as 3-5 minute bouts! Now, I would argue that most folks in HS programs are doing bouts closer to 1-3 minutes (usually 400s or 800s ish, or some ladder there of).

So you think about the rest as a fairly complete recovery? That was my real question. There is an argument that if you think of intervals as being say 95% of HR max, you are not going to accumulate virtually any time at that HR if you are doing say 400s with a good amount of rest? I think this was JDs point in having intervals 3-5 minutes with at most 1:1 rest. If you recover too much, you dont get any time at interval effort accumulating?

rest wrote:

An interval is the rest period between repeats. The point of the interval is to rest between repeats.

This is the best way to define intervals and repeats. When defined this way, it becomes clear, the goal of the training is to get experience running near, at, or slightly faster than race pace. The recovery from this stimulus, when repeated multiple times, allows one to cover a given distance faster than previously covered.

I disagree, 100s with full recovery is very typical speed work session. So are 50s, in and outs, and yes even 150s. Sprinters do these workout all day. But yes, we seem to have a multitude of definitions of intervals so far. Very different physiological effects from doing 400s with 2-3 min rest vs 800-1000 with equal rest. Daniels study of physiology would suggest the latter is much more specific. 400s with 2-3 minute rest (no doubt very common is HS track) will almost never get you to interval HR target. That is why posted, I find what we do in practice is very different that what the supposed point of intervals is. I dont know that we do true intervals, most of us? Unless, of course, we do our broken thresholds too hard (probably very common) and then yes, those are probably interval sessions. Not that repeat 400s at high clip with longer rest is useless, everyone needs to get stronger, run overspeed, improve economy etc...

bigmig19 wrote:

lease wrote:

1. "Pure [top] speed" is not developed by 150s, or even by 100s.

But I'm pretty sure you meant any workout that focuses on *high* speed, with rest intervals long enough to produce full or near-full recovery.

I disagree, 100s with full recovery is very typical speed work session. So are 50s, in and outs, and yes even 150s. Sprinters do these workout all day.

Toe-may-toe, toe-mah-toe. I think "lease" was talking about the development of *top* speed, which only happens with short segments; while the OP was probably talking about *high-speed* sprinting workouts, which do indeed include hollow sprints, 150s, etc.

There's a little ambiguity in "pure speed workout." The OP probably meant "pure speed-workout" and lease may have understood that as "pure-speed workout." I'm sure that makes things even less clear!