6:30 is roughly my current 15k race pace. Also my cadence on easy runs is around high-150s.
If it is too low, how should I increase it? Btw, I do have a bouncy loping stride and I do have some hip problems, so I think it may be worth working on.
6:30 is roughly my current 15k race pace. Also my cadence on easy runs is around high-150s.
If it is too low, how should I increase it? Btw, I do have a bouncy loping stride and I do have some hip problems, so I think it may be worth working on.
I think the recommendations around ~180 being ideal were based on watching elites race 1500m distances
It makes zero sense to apply to normies, I think a lower cadence is typical. I also think a bit of oscillation can actually do wonders [warning, bro science personal belief following], as a lot of the elite 'thon'ers are really quite bouncy
Old men and women shuffle, kids just go crazy and are limbs everywhere
you do you man, seems like most studies suggest that most runners end up in a near ideal gait for their physical capabilities. I'm sure things can be tweaked in form, but likely you are finding the right cadence
How tall are you? If you have longer than average legs then you’ll naturally take longer/less steps to cover the same distance.
I'm actually slightly shorter than average (5'6) with a long torso.
Are you injured? No? Then don’t worry about it.
stop looking at numbers wrote:
Are you injured? No? Then don’t worry about it.
Unfortunately I do have hip bursitis that keeps coming back, so I'm wondering if working on my cadence would help.
180 all paces
You are likely to get lots of different takes on this. I went to PT for an injury and the 'running guru' PT they assigned to me was obsessed with 180 cadence to the point he recommended I do all of my runs with a metronome set to 180. (he also told me to never let my heel touch the ground among other things).
The thing is, depending on the terrain and pace I might be going OVER 180 am I then supposed to bring it down to 180? He didnt have a good answer for this, and nobody seems to (at least none of the people who say you should ALWAYS run at 180). I think it really varies from person to person and for me in my case I mostly run on trails and train for trail races. In those conditions 180 just seems unreasonable for most of my runs, I am usually around 170 for easy runs and harder efforts closer to 175-180 but rarely do I have a run where my average is right on 180 in fact I dont think it ever has been except when I was seeing that PT and forcing it.
Oh but to answer your question more directly, I do think 160 seems low for 6:30 pace
i'm like 170 for easy runs and 190 in a mile race.
also just checked a 400m i ran with my watch and i start off at 235 and come down to 190 in the last straight
160s is awfully slow, unless you're jogging, which apparently isn't your case.
A low cadence just forces you to jump higher in order to get the air time to have a long stride to run fast. Just because you can do it comfortably now, doesn't mean that it's a good idea. Save your low cadence for slow jogs. If you look at runners doing training runs for various distances and paces, you will see that their cadences slow down when they run slow, and easily run at 30 to 40 steps per minute faster during faster efforts. Just train yourself to 'change gears'.
I thought I was high, I recently did a workout and was in the 190-195 range for a really long workout, then I looked at Kipchoge's Berlin race and found he was between 185-190.
spaghettilegs wrote:
180 all paces
I agree… and it is worth working on
180 for everyone is one size fits very few. But, you do not have a too high cadence that is for sure. There is no compelling evidence that you have to increase cadence. THere is a lot of observations and opinions about it though.
There is evidence that people run the most efficient at their natural cadence (I think that is obvious since this is what they have been practicing on and sort of optimized over a lot of miles). But cadence also is connected to running form. So trying to increase cadence is IMO kindof a proxy for improving running form. I am taller than you (5. 10) and have high 160s at that pace. I have had higher, but it has changed when I have been working on running form.
I am more concerned about my running form, how I put my foot in the ground, below my body, how I can get a good hip extension and how effortless and powerful each stride feels. Just moving those legs like drumsticks in the ground without that kindof feedback from the ground is nothing I believe in.
That said, there is some evidence that people could experience an increased running economy if they increase their natural cadence a little bit, but that does NOT mean that all should increase to 180.
As you, I have tried to increase my cadence, but I have more or less stopped trying and as I write above, more tried to evaluate my running form rather than pushing a cadence.
manville wrote:
spaghettilegs wrote:
180 all paces
I agree… and it is worth working on
Nonsense.
!n one Olympic game (can´t remember which) the researchers observed that all runners (no matter what distance) raced with a cadence of AT LEAST 180 strides/minute.
So we´re talking about:
1: elite runners
2: elite race pace
3: At least 180 SPM.
No researcher has ever said that you should always run at 180 SPM. Anyone who claims that should provide a link to that research.
I have seen a video of Mo Farah running a long run with 155 SPM. Tyson Gay at max speed was 260 SPM.
It is low, and I would find it uncomfortably low. It also isn't ideal to have a big difference between cadences for different run types, so the easy run cadence should still be close to the cadence of tempos, etc. But as some have said, what that number is, in and of itself, isn't necessarily an issue. 180 is a good efficient marker, but not a prescription. I find it comfortable running anywhere between 175-186 (consistent data I recall seeing after runs but I don't always make note of cadence) and it seems to translate training well into performances.
The issue is that you have pain, rather than any given number. Is it the cadence? hard to say, could just be tightness (sedentary job, etc). But shorter, faster strides can be one item which can reduce the stress on the hips.
How to fix? ... seems simple, but just shorten the stride? Don't worry about speed or times to start with. After you can discipline yourself with a relatively shorter stride, then attempt (over various distances) to increase speed without really lengthening the stride. There's only one way to do that - cadence! (Sometimes people talk about 'leading with the knees' - what is meant, is the visualization of not overreaching with a really extended lower leg - you may also feel that you are 'sitting lower' just a tiny bit whilst running). You'll get used with time to the rhythm and the sound of circa 180.
Doesn't even have to be dead on 180, but an increase from 150ish maybe to high 160s or low 170s , will even be enough of a change to let you know if the issue is actually cadence.
Some of us are Thoroughbreds and others are Clydesdales. Do Thoroughbreds and Clydesdales have the same cadence?
well,, wrote:
!n one Olympic game (can´t remember which) the researchers observed that all runners (no matter what distance) raced with a cadence of AT LEAST 180 strides/minute.
So we´re talking about:
1: elite runners
2: elite race pace
3: At least 180 SPM.
No researcher has ever said that you should always run at 180 SPM. Anyone who claims that should provide a link to that research.
I have seen a video of Mo Farah running a long run with 155 SPM. Tyson Gay at max speed was 260 SPM.
Mo is an interesting case. He as a powerful and bouncy stride. He obviously run fast enough, he may be at a lower cadence than many others. I have picked up he has been workin on less bouncy and more efficiency. It is interesting to watch his effort together with Abdi for the 1hour distance world record in 2020. Abdi looks good, but you can spot the difference between them. Abdi has a quicker form and more cadence, but it for sure does not show the same power as Mo shows. I think I would pick Mo's stride any day