Ever considered doing some sort of fartlek for a race?

sttrunner20 wrote:

like 3 mins hard (race pace or faster) followed by 1-2 mins easy or something like that? would it ever work? totally serious.

Define work. You mean winning? Not likely unless the competition sucked. If you mean getting your workout in, sure why not? Enter a 10K and do something like 3 minutes fast, 1 minute easy for as many reps as you want.

Or better yet, assuming you are a sub 5 miler, enter a mile race and do 5 minutes hard, continue to run hard through the finish line until your 5 minutes are up, jog 2 minutes around the track and then continue a couple of more times. That will be sure to get a crowd reaction.

I love doing fartlek workouts and sometimes it gets funny when I run them on crowded trails, like I may pass someone towards the end of the hard session, then just as they are about to approach me, my rest time is up and I take off again. I always stick to the planned workout, but it's still funny when it happens. Sometimes I wonder if they think I'm deliberately messing with them.

Every heard of the Galloway method?

East Coast poor wrote:

sttrunner20 wrote:

like 3 mins hard (race pace or faster) followed by 1-2 mins easy or something like that? would it ever work? totally serious.

Define work. You mean winning? Not likely unless the competition sucked. If you mean getting your workout in, sure why not? Enter a 10K and do something like 3 minutes fast, 1 minute easy for as many reps as you want.

Or better yet, assuming you are a sub 5 miler, enter a mile race and do 5 minutes hard, continue to run hard through the finish line until your 5 minutes are up, jog 2 minutes around the track and then continue a couple of more times. That will be sure to get a crowd reaction.

It probably won't get a crowd reaction, but the officials will certainly stop you unless this is the last race.

A steeplechaser I knew (his best time was something like 8:40) tried to alternative fast and slow laps (something like 65 and 90). He won easily as he was against 10 minute runners, but I think he was too ambitious on his early fast laps.

ElGuerroujFan wrote:

I am pretty sure Rupp did this at a certain 10k Olympic Trials. 2012 or 2016 or something...

No he didn't.

I've done this as a sort of hack when solo time trialing. Didn't PR or anything, but within about 10 seconds of what I could have run at the time and much more enjoyable. The key is to float the rest interval, not jog it.

i feel like this is really annoying/distracting to others. why even pay to be in the race?

I have done things similar to this in races before. Obviously do not do this if you want to run your best time. It will not "work" if you want to do as well as you can.

I did these while officially entered in the events. I would never consider doing this while paying to enter current races with high entry fees.

In a modified form, did this in a road marathon. Paced a friend through 20 miles (he finished ~14th) and then I left him and ran hard to the end. Caught and passed everyone but the eventual winner, who only finished 7 seconds ahead of me. I needed another 200 meters...

In a 10k, ran the first mile hard to lead the race, then dropped back to run with a friend, then ran the last mile hard.

In a 25 runner low key hilly trail marathon run, I ran hard out front till I came to an unmarked intersection. There were course instructions but someone running the thing was marking the turns during the race, When I got to an unmarked intersection, I turned around and ran back until I met the last runner, then turned and run hard till I passed everyone and came to another unmarked intersection. Then turned to do it again and again and again... This was harder to do as the race progressed.

I totally bonked after about the 20 mile mark, having already run about 26 miles. As I faded badly, people started to pass me.

Fortunately I knew just about everyone, and they all took pity on me. They encouraged me and gave me gels and stuff till I finished my 32 miles or so mid pack.

In a big city 10k, cruised the first mile, then ran hard until 20 people were passed. Then cruised to the next mile mark, and ran hard until 20 more people were passed. Repeat. You need to run the first mile slow enough so you work your way up through the field and have people to pass.

In a track mile, the goal was to run each lap faster to finish in 4:20. Ran 68, 66, 64 but could only manage 63 on the last lap. Was a far back last after the first lap and 2nd at the end.

sttrunner20 wrote:

like 3 mins hard (race pace or faster) followed by 1-2 mins easy or something like that? would it ever work? totally serious.

Probably not for a trained runner, but introducing brief surges in distance races like Bekele does does work provided you have the anaerobic capacity. Every surge borrows from the anaerobic reserve, so there’s a limit to how long it can be and how often.

An untrained runner can be faster even with run-walking, i.e., running with walk breaks, because the time they lose in the walk portions is more than compensated by the higher speed in the run portions, all with a lower average HR because the HR drops much more quickly than it takes to rise back up to the previous high.

sttrunner20 wrote:

video link? kinda curious

I couldn't find a good link for the race. I was at the trials watching it from the stands. But here is an interview with Sam Chelenga about his tactics.

Chelimo in the 2019 US championships 10,000m is the best example of this I've seen by far in any race.

Why pay to do this in a race? Just do the workout for free.

The only thing I've done is half marathons at marathon pace as a prep for a marathon. Good way to practice nutrition and race day prep.

I think this might be an effective tactic for a B or C race considering your A race is a very different distance. Like, if you train for a marathon with a lot of long slow distance and enter a 5k or 10k. You might not be ready to spend the whole duration of the race way above threshold, and and if you go out slower, the result might be very much below your marathon level. But as a marathoner you could 'rest' at around threshold pace and accelerate for say half of every mile. I think this could average to smth a bit faster compared to an even pace you could confidently hold. Depends on the runner of course.

roller coaster wrote:

ElGuerroujFan wrote:

I am pretty sure Rupp did this at a certain 10k Olympic Trials. 2012 or 2016 or something...

No he didn't.

Yes, he did that in the 10k in 2016

Hey, isn't that XC racing? Constantly surging and slowing down.