Norm was never one to shy away from Track and Field controversies:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlgxWTvj3bM
Norm was not a fan of race walking.
"I was watchin' last night, I saw, speed, uh, speed skating. And, uh, my goodness, you know? Could the outfits they wear be any tighter? Holy Lord! There was an East German woman, I swear, you could see the outline of her entire penis."
A trans woman is a trans woman. She's not a biological woman.
Robert, you're transphobic. A trans woman is by definition a woman. No ifs, ands, or buts - by definition there is no such thing as a "biological woman". Not only does this have no meaning, this is incredibly offensive to trans individuals who constantly have their gender questioned or qualified.
The nuance you are missing regarding biological sex is a different discussion, but don't drag people's womanhood, or manhood, etc. into it.
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RunRagged wrote:
Everyone at and on LRC: please stop suggesting that women with PCOS produce T in the normal male range.
No one suggested women with PCOS produce T in the 'normal male range.'
There is a lot of evidence that women who have PCOS can produce body hair, deeper voices, but most importantly greater muscle strength.
The parallel drawn between blade runners competing with "bipeds" as MacDonald puts it and non-female physiologies and bodies competing in the female category is apt. Blade runners are obviously not in the same category, not even doing the same event as the other runners. Most of us have increased resentment the more obviously the non-female physiology competitor is non-female. If there had never been a Semenya, Mboma/Niyonsaba may have just been outstanding performers and DSD could still be an unknown term to track fans . Niyonsaba would be the dominant 800 runner. Mboma would already have the WR in the 400 and may have yet to run a 200.
I don’t know if Rojo knows this, but norm was a comedian.
Precious Roy wrote:
This is a very complicated issue that does not for an instant lend itself to simple bright lines. I know an OBGYN who told me that people would be shocked if they knew how many times doctors deliver babies and cannot assign sex at birth.
Roy, cut the crap. The DSD rate is 1.5 out of 100,000 live births. You apparently know some pretty crappy doctors. 10 live births per day, and 30 years with no time off and you see about 2 maybe.
Enough talk, get 'em TF outta here!
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I disagree. "resentment" is a terrible way to measure who should be allowed to compete.
There are plenty of racists who "resent" being being beaten by races they don't like .
llort_vbo wrote:
Precious Roy wrote:
This is a very complicated issue that does not for an instant lend itself to simple bright lines. I know an OBGYN who told me that people would be shocked if they knew how many times doctors deliver babies and cannot assign sex at birth.
Roy, cut the crap. The DSD rate is 1.5 out of 100,000 live births. You apparently know some pretty crappy doctors. 10 live births per day, and 30 years with no time off and you see about 2 maybe.
Wrong. 1.5 out of 100k births is just the rate for DSD XY gonadal dysgenesis. And that is just one of several DSDs. Genital ambiguity has an estimated rate of 1:2000-1:4500. For a very long time, these issues were just swept under the rug as doctors would make a guess as to sex and advise parents to perform surgery based on a guess. Now, in sports, trying to draw bright lines ignores the difficult issues that arise from the many different ways DSDs present in people. As long as people like rojo think that it is just as simple as women with testicles and high testosterone, we are never going to get to a fair resolution to this issue and will just systematically exclude anyone who is not 100% female sex at birth.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5866176/#R1llort_vbo wrote:
Precious Roy wrote:
This is a very complicated issue that does not for an instant lend itself to simple bright lines. I know an OBGYN who told me that people would be shocked if they knew how many times doctors deliver babies and cannot assign sex at birth.
Roy, cut the crap. The DSD rate is 1.5 out of 100,000 live births. You apparently know some pretty crappy doctors. 10 live births per day, and 30 years with no time off and you see about 2 maybe.
The sole reason there are male and female divisions in competitive sports is to account for differences in biology. So long as dsd and trans female athletes possess a similar biological advantage (elevated testosterone due to tested) they should be restricted to the open/male division. It’s not that complicated.
Precious Roy wrote:
we are never going to get to a fair resolution to this issue and will just systematically exclude anyone who is not 100% female sex
And what is the problem with this exactly? It's a free world - a motivated DSD person can make a new athletics federation with different rules if they want.
Most DSD's will have co-medical conditions that would make it impossible to be an elite athlete regardless. The exceptions who can function without comorbidities very clearly have an unfair advantage (male level testeosterone literally from having testicles) and should be excluded from women's competition in all distances/events. This is the direction it is going, as soon as IAAF has the "data" needed to broaden the scope of the current restrictions.
Rojo, this is really disgraceful stuff. You’re using Norm Macdonald’s memory to prove your point about intersex athletes? Sick
industry car wrote:
Rojo, this is really disgraceful stuff. You’re using Norm Macdonald’s memory to prove your point about intersex athletes? Sick
+1
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There was ZERO need to drag Norm’s name into this. You don’t know what his opinion on this would’ve been. Furthermore, the relationship between his words and yours is abstract at best and has nothing to do with logic. Shameful click bait, RoJo.
Disko Eric wrote:
I don’t know if Rojo knows this, but norm was a comedian.
So are Kimmel, Trevor Noah, and Colbert, although not nearly as funny as Norm. They present news through their leftist lens as truth all the time.
Rojo makes a very valid point, and people try to come up with every little exception. There is an open category and any DSD athlete can compete in it.
It is a tough situation for DSD athletes, because they have a distinct advantage over biological females, but they will never compete with the elite males. There are not enough at a high level to have their own division. Maybe eventually their can be a trans woman and DSD division. That would actually be pretty exciting to watch.
whaaaaaat wrote:
There was ZERO need to drag Norm’s name into this. You don’t know what his opinion on this would’ve been. Furthermore, the relationship between his words and yours is abstract at best and has nothing to do with logic. Shameful click bait, RoJo.
+1
Star wrote:
Norm MacDonald was one of my favorite comedians.
That means he said funny things. And the entire point of anything he said would be to make people laugh.
I don't know why people keep referencing comedians to make a point about politics or anything serious.
Bill Maher said this. Joe Rogan said that.
Let's not have any discussions about what any comedian said and try to apply it to anything in real life.
Unless it's Carrot Top.
Norm was famous for making OJ Simpson is a murderer jokes. Yes, they are jokes...but CLEARLY Norm was making a point about all the crazy people who believed OJ was innocent.