What happens after high school?
One half of that 2019 dynamic duo is running well. The other half, an also-ran at this point.
What happens after high school?
One half of that 2019 dynamic duo is running well. The other half, an also-ran at this point.
yes and yes wrote:
John Kimball wrote:
Those times ARE slow according to their coach.
Yes, and they have many more kids that run faster. Coincidence?
You completely missed the point of his question.
If talent has nothing to do with it, why doesn’t every runner that Brosnan coaches run the same times?
It’s clear that despite all training under SB, some ppl on his program only achieve 4:28.
So then, why do these 4 boys run so much faster?
Not sure how long he's been coaching, but I agree with whoever said it'll take time to see if he's a GOAT coach. Will he have a contending State title team every year? National title? My old HS coach (RIP) built a huge tradition with respect and dedication at the heart of the system, as well as monster training. He won more State titles in XC than any other coach in any sport in the State, not sure about nationally. Most of his career as a coach was when the national title meant sending in your times for a 3 mile time trial, to be compared with other teams that entered, but when they started the NXN, they were usually in the mix. The whole national system, with regionals included, as well as the internet-being able to compare and read about what the rest of the country is doing has definitely helped improve the sport. Sounds like Newbury's coach is building a great tradition. It'll be exciting to see if he can make it last.
welcome to 2021 wrote:
PeanutButterJelly wrote:
How many alumni finished in the top 100 at NCAA D1 XC Nationals over the last two years?
Is this the new standard for High School success? I thought it was how they performed in High School races. My bad.
Well, Nico Young was 4th last year as a FRESHMAN, and when this new cohort graduates, they will definitely leave their mark in D1.
8:56 wrote:
yes and yes wrote:
Yes, and they have many more kids that run faster. Coincidence?
You completely missed the point of his question.
If talent has nothing to do with it, why doesn’t every runner that Brosnan coaches run the same times?
It’s clear that despite all training under SB, some ppl on his program only achieve 4:28.
So then, why do these 4 boys run so much faster?
Pretty positive nobody said they weren't talented. Of course talent is a factor. But, Newbury Park doesn't have a monopoly on talent.
Everyone wants to chalk it up to talent. It's more than that.
PeanutButterJelly wrote:
How many alumni finished in the top 100 at NCAA D1 XC Nationals over the last two years?
This is actually a really interesting topic. Many alums of these uber successful HS programs don’t improve much in college… What’s the goal T Newbury? To maximize performances at 16-18 years old or to give athletes a strong foundation to improve for the next 5 years?
Joe Newton, gets beat up on these boards as well. It seams any coach that expects more out of high school kids roasted.
Will Brosnan win as many state champs as your old coach? I doubt it. As far as National title? He's already got one.
DougC wrote:
PeanutButterJelly wrote:
How many alumni finished in the top 100 at NCAA D1 XC Nationals over the last two years?
This is actually a really interesting topic. Many alums of these uber successful HS programs don’t improve much in college… What’s the goal T Newbury? To maximize performances at 16-18 years old or to give athletes a strong foundation to improve for the next 5 years?
What's the Colorado Buffalo fella done since running an 8:45 in high school?
I think if you consider girls into the equation, the 2010 FM girls give them a run for their money. 27 points at NXN is hard to beat. A rough male equivalent for their NXN speed ratings would be 199, 192, 192, 187, 182 which is fairly similar to this NBP team (and that was not their best performance that year). 2014 FM boys hit 198, 194, 194, 189, 178 on a single day, but unfortunately had a really poor day at NXN and are rarely considered one of the GOAT teams because of that (they still won with 111 points though).
They are very similar teams though, albeit with the genders switched. The greatest program of all time on one side (boys for NBP, girls for FM). The single greatest team of all time (2010 FM girls and 2021 NBP boys). More inconsistent success on the opposite gender, but high highs (2014 FM boys, maybe a future NBP girls national champion team...they're already getting better though Saratoga still seems much stronger). An all-in culture including summer training camps and college-type training. A new standard of what good is; seeming to turn everybody into a good runner (FM often had 10 or fewer girls on their roster and 7 of them would win a national championship).
And I expect just like FM, for NBP to go on a national title run for at least a few years. They will eventually lose, all good teams do. The talent will dry up. His slow runners are running 4:28? One day he will have a team that is all slow runners, all 4:20+ milers, and he won't be able to win. Just like with FM, the rest of the country will catch up. But for now, they are the greatest.
DougC wrote:
PeanutButterJelly wrote:
How many alumni finished in the top 100 at NCAA D1 XC Nationals over the last two years?
This is actually a really interesting topic. Many alums of these uber successful HS programs don’t improve much in college… What’s the goal T Newbury? To maximize performances at 16-18 years old or to give athletes a strong foundation to improve for the next 5 years?
Many alums of the majority of programs don't even get a chance to run in college.
Why is the high school coach responsible for college performance? Does the college coach bare any responsibility?
welcome to 2021 wrote:
8:56 wrote:
You completely missed the point of his question.
If talent has nothing to do with it, why doesn’t every runner that Brosnan coaches run the same times?
It’s clear that despite all training under SB, some ppl on his program only achieve 4:28.
So then, why do these 4 boys run so much faster?
Pretty positive nobody said they weren't talented. Of course talent is a factor. But, Newbury Park doesn't have a monopoly on talent.
Everyone wants to chalk it up to talent. It's more than that.
It’s coaching but also talent.
If all the kids had different last names it would be an easier sell.
Lex Young ran 14:40 his first ever XC race. Idk if Brosnan was coaching him for more than a few weeks a that point.
Baxter van Der Bosch wrote:
DougC wrote:
This is actually a really interesting topic. Many alums of these uber successful HS programs don’t improve much in college… What’s the goal T Newbury? To maximize performances at 16-18 years old or to give athletes a strong foundation to improve for the next 5 years?
What's the Colorado Buffalo fella done since running an 8:45 in high school?
Ask Mark Wetmore!
8:56 wrote:
welcome to 2021 wrote:
Pretty positive nobody said they weren't talented. Of course talent is a factor. But, Newbury Park doesn't have a monopoly on talent.
Everyone wants to chalk it up to talent. It's more than that.
It’s coaching but also talent.
If all the kids had different last names it would be an easier sell.
Lex Young ran 14:40 his first ever XC race. Idk if Brosnan was coaching him for more than a few weeks a that point.
14:42 for 3rd; Jeff Atinkson's boy won in 14:39.
Straight from Athletic.net. Stats are hard folks. He got 2 talented families and transfers.
Top 4: 2 Families
Leo Young 13:38.1PR
Aaron Sahlman 13:42.3PR
Lex Young 13:44.4PR
Colin Sahlman 13:48.0PR
Hector Martinez 14:38.1PR
Then, this is like most other schools except they are a HUGE D1 School.
ONLY 20 TOTAL boys on the team. For a D1 school, pretty small team.
Daniel Appleford 14:53.9
Dev Doshi 14:58.2PR
Aaron Cantu 15:09.7
Zaki Blunt 15:13.6PR
Oliver Windham-Huges 15:33.6PR
Jonah Sloan 16:01.8PR
Jack Watson 16:27.7PR
Nathan Porter 16:30.5PR
Arnav Shetty 17:12.5PR
Noah Ingersoll 18:00.5PR
Jackson Kurtz 18:13.4PR
Carson Keene 18:56.0PR
Tristan Kanner 19:23.1PR
Nathan Truong 20:08.0PR
Josiah Stillman 23:11.0PR
Girls are fairly similar to other schools. Some transfers here.
Sam McDonnell 15:54.6PR
Morgan Nygren 17:05.2PR
Tiffany Sax 17:07.6PR
Ailish Hawkins 17:07.9PR
Lexi Darley 17:31.6PR
Samantha Spaulding 17:52.1PR
Danielle Brotcke 18:02.4PR
Norah Lehto 19:24.9PR
Samantha Villavicencio 19:32.0PR
Maya Natarajan 19:36.3PR
Abigail Round 19:39.1PR
Ava Sanders 20:50.0PR
Giselle Gonzales 21:10.8PR
Lauren Whetten 21:30.7
Taylor Watson 21:49.7
Abby Inouye 21:51.4PR
Mona Schmitz-Elvenich 22:19.1PR
Sofia Granillo 23:06.2PR
Sydney Parish 23:12.6PR
Sarah Kavanagh 23:38.6PR
Tyler Turner 27:29.1PR
welcome to 2021 wrote:
PeanutButterJelly wrote:
How many alumni finished in the top 100 at NCAA D1 XC Nationals over the last two years?
Is this the new standard for High School success? I thought it was how they performed in High School races. My bad.
Who knows. According the posters here training hard and doing big mileage in high school is either necessary for development or is crazy and causes burn out. Which is it?
8:56 wrote:
welcome to 2021 wrote:
Pretty positive nobody said they weren't talented. Of course talent is a factor. But, Newbury Park doesn't have a monopoly on talent.
Everyone wants to chalk it up to talent. It's more than that.
It’s coaching but also talent.
If all the kids had different last names it would be an easier sell.
Lex Young ran 14:40 his first ever XC race. Idk if Brosnan was coaching him for more than a few weeks a that point.
Yeah, and he just ran 13:38. He dropped a minute off of an already fast time.
They won both the Girls and Boys race at Woodbridge. None of the girls were related to the Youngs.
I'm not selling anything. It happened. You can try to discount the accomplishment if you want, but you wont change the results.
The guy's a good coach.
Appleford is coming off an injury, he is more like a sub 14:30 guy.
8:56 wrote:
welcome to 2021 wrote:
Pretty positive nobody said they weren't talented. Of course talent is a factor. But, Newbury Park doesn't have a monopoly on talent.
Everyone wants to chalk it up to talent. It's more than that.
It’s coaching but also talent.
If all the kids had different last names it would be an easier sell.
Lex Young ran 14:40 his first ever XC race. Idk if Brosnan was coaching him for more than a few weeks a that point.
This is a critical point. I’d put my daughter’s D5 coach up against Brosnan or any other hs coach. He’s won a few D5 CA team titles, but what’s most impressive is where the kids start as freshman and then finish as seniors in terms of the magnitude of improvement over the entire spectrum of talent he’s coaching. Of course, he’s working with a limited talent pool. He gets the back of packers to be solid middle to front of pack runners and he gets those with some ability to be up front. The kids show marked improvement wherever they enter. There’s very little attrition from the team and they enjoy it and they don’t need to be future D1 runners to benefit from his coaching.
For those of you that think he just benefits from talent. Here's an example. Compare the 2019 and 2021 Woodbridge results. They didn't run 2020.
NP number one girl in 2021
Sam McDonnell
2019 - 17:12, 35th place
2021 - 15:54, 2nd place
Desert Vista number one girl in 2021
Lauren Ping
2019 - 16:09, 2nd place
2021 - 16:04, 5th place
Not to single out Ping, and Desert Vista. She's a great runner, they're a good program. But , this shows it's not just about talent.
welcome to 2021 wrote:
For those of you that think he just benefits from talent. Here's an example. Compare the 2019 and 2021 Woodbridge results. They didn't run 2020.
NP number one girl in 2021
Sam McDonnell
2019 - 17:12, 35th place
2021 - 15:54, 2nd place
Desert Vista number one girl in 2021
Lauren Ping
2019 - 16:09, 2nd place
2021 - 16:04, 5th place
Not to single out Ping, and Desert Vista. She's a great runner, they're a good program. But , this shows it's not just about talent.
Here's another example
NP number 7 boy in 2021
Zaki Blunt
2019 - 15:35
2021 - 15:13
Desert Vista number eight boy in 2021 (7 didn't run in 2019)
Diego Rueda
2019 - 17:25
2021 - 16:17
Not to single out Blunt, and NP. He's a great runner and they're a good program, But this just shows your picking out one scenario doesn't mean anything.
Is there a rule against attaching a helium balloon to yourself while running a road race?
How rare is it to run a sub 5 minute mile AND bench press 225?
Jakob Ingebrigtsen has a 1989 Ferrari 348 GTB and he's just put in paperwork to upgrade it
Am I living in the twilight zone? The Boston Marathon weather was terrible!
Move over Mark Coogan, Rojo and John Kellogg share their 3 favorite mile workouts
Mark Coogan says that if you could only do 3 workouts as a 1500m runner you should do these