Maybe if he gets a haircut and fixes that atrocious running form with the girly arm swing.
But in all likelihood Hocker's not going under 3:30 unless we get some superdrugs or supersupershoes.
Maybe if he gets a haircut and fixes that atrocious running form with the girly arm swing.
But in all likelihood Hocker's not going under 3:30 unless we get some superdrugs or supersupershoes.
so brave wrote:
He would be if he got on epo full throttle. Probably won’t though and will be lucky to get under 3:30.
^ This is the correct answer.
Also true of a few others, like Kerr, McSweyn, Wightman...
The way a 3:38 runner like Katir became a 3:28 guy with 12 months of full throttle doping, and has now dropped back down to 3:34 after a couple months of microdosing at best, suggests that all the above names and Hocker would be sub 3:25 guys on full throttle all-you-can-eat Moroccan sauce.
SDSU Aztec wrote:
so brave wrote:
Your position is El G was clean? Just because you don’t want to talk about it doesn’t make it not true.
I don't know if El G was clean, but the OP's question was not whether one cheated, both did or neither.
Speculation of PED use without evidence,is boring and not worthy of a thread.
If you are comparing with someone that has 7 of the top 10 times ever from a time when epo was widely used and a test didn’t exist you should expect to discuss doping.
You can find it boring, ignoring it though is putting your head in the sand.
There was a thread around the Olympics which showed he'd had 1 test in college,any evidence to show he's had more?
OozmaKappa wrote:
Maybe if he gets a haircut and fixes that atrocious running form with the girly arm swing.
But in all likelihood Hocker's not going under 3:30 unless we get some superdrugs or supersupershoes.
This reminds me of the time everybody was saying Cole Hocker won't win NCAA's or won't even make the olympic team or won't make the world final.
Except theres a world of difference between predicting the end of a movie during the opening credits and during the final act. 🤣
Lets keep it a buck, the 1500 is not that competitive at trials or at NCAA. Running a 3:29 is a lot harder than that.
I'm a huge fan of Hocker and insanely felt like I had to defend his talent on these boards prior to Tokyo. I made the statement that Hocker, in winning the NCAAs and US trials, did so with performances that were easily comparable to World and Olympic medal winning performances of the past by some incredible athletes - including El Guerrojou, which by the numbers was accurate.
However.
By gut feeling is that Hocker can be a sub 3.30 runner - but not by a lot, and I don't think that outright time trialing is his best attribute (like it was Hichems). To get to that level he would need to do a lot of work on his sub-max running form which isn't impossible but is easier said than done. Put Hocker right now next to Jakob and get them to run a 55 second 400m (an easy one-off effort for both) and you will see the difference. He is a special runner, VERY special, with this crazy strength that he has (especially at the age of 20) and how he out-bodies people in the final 80m off moderate to strong paces.
But times well under 3.30 (in the 3.26/7 range) mean you have to be capable of running through 800m in 1.50 looking like you are running 2.00 and I just don't know if that is his deal.
I think he can have a career similar to Centro's. I think he will catch a world final at some point that isn't sub 3.30 pace and will medal. At the start of the 2010's if you told me Centrowitz would catch a race so perfectly suited to him like the Rio final I would have laughed - but stranger things happen and could happen to Hocker if he was right place and right time like so much of this sport is.
He's going to be great, but will not be the next Hicham El Guerrojou.
Let it Rupp wrote:
OozmaKappa wrote:
Maybe if he gets a haircut and fixes that atrocious running form with the girly arm swing.
But in all likelihood Hocker's not going under 3:30 unless we get some superdrugs or supersupershoes.
This reminds me of the time everybody was saying Cole Hocker won't win NCAA's or won't even make the olympic team or won't make the world final.
Dude at one point the amount of defense and advocacy this kid needed was f-ing ridiculous. Even after NCAA's and the brilliance of that run there were people finding ways to discredit him and talk that performance down. I remember this very well.
Damn the Hocker fanboys are out in full force today
Let it Rupp wrote:
He's a 3:35 guy.
+3:35
Cold Veins Hocker
He's just Andrew Wheating if he wore super spikes.
But for real tho. Hocker's running form would not be able to be televised in China.
I think Hockers erratic form is a result of his massive improvement. He went from being a 3:59 runner to a 3:48 runner in a year. Running economy takes a while to improve and as time goes on he will look more comfortable at that 55-57 second 400 pace.
3.31.40 by a 20 year old gunner is great. So is being number 6 in the final in Tokyo. Very promising, but no El Guerrouj-prospects yet. We'll see in Monaco next year. Internationally it is only going to be faster. It is not about the kick any longer.
Having a good kick in a 3:40 race doesnt matter if you cant get under 3:30 in an era where people no longer sandbag during the first 3 laps.
OozmaKappa wrote:
Damn the Hocker fanboys are out in full force today
I'm sorry why wouldn't a fan of American distance running be a fan of Cole Hocker? He's probably the most talented American born miler you have had since Jim Ryun.
I'm not even American and I think his talent is exceptional.
"sub-max running form"
I've never heard of that before. Did you read that somewhere or just make it up?
OozmaKappa wrote:
Having a good kick in a 3:40 race doesnt matter if you cant get under 3:30 in an era where people no longer sandbag during the first 3 laps.
Isn't this down to just 2 or 3 individuals though?
Compare the 800m in 2019 with Vasquez and Brazier and the 800m in 2021 without them.
Salvitore Stitchmo wrote:
OozmaKappa wrote:
Damn the Hocker fanboys are out in full force today
I'm sorry why wouldn't a fan of American distance running be a fan of Cole Hocker? He's probably the most talented American born miler you have had since Jim Ryun.
I'm not even American and I think his talent is exceptional.
Fair point, as it pertains to liking the guy. Very true. Yeah he's the best we've got, of course americans will be fans. But let's not get fanatical. Problem is a lot of people are delusional about how competitive our country's distance runners are.