Niyonsaba 8:19.08 3k - #6 all-time ever

We know the answer to the question. There was no woman in existence before who has run 1:55 and 8:19. Does anyone think Mu could run 8:19 with one year focus on long distance?

Niyonsaba is not in wrong event but in the wrong class.

Do we know if Koko or Cranny might run 8:10 or 8:00 if they were brought to Niyonsaba's T-level artificially? Mu might run 1:49 with a bit more T?

Maybe someone is volunteering to try...

Jo72 wrote:

We know the answer to the question. There was no woman in existence before who has run 1:55 and 8:19. Does anyone think Mu could run 8:19 with one year focus on long distance?

Niyonsaba is not in wrong event but in the wrong class.

Do we know if Koko or Cranny might run 8:10 or 8:00 if they were brought to Niyonsaba's T-level artificially? Mu might run 1:49 with a bit more T?

Maybe someone is volunteering to try...

hassan closest thing to something like this.

something needs to be done quickly. the craziest thing is how quickly it has happened and how much potential she still has for growth.

I think IAAF/WA messed it up royally in the Semenya case. They handled it poorly from the very beginning which wronged Semenya and then this sense of personal wronging led to further mishandling and to the very limited restriction. Making it all about (mostly) the 800m was totally wrong. And now it backfires. Unless the ban or T reduction is extended, I am pretty sure that we will see many more DSD persons dominating women's sports in the future.

And the point is not that Hassan in top form might have run 8:17 and beat Niyonsaba today, so it's not like the Rio 800m with a DSD podium. The point is that artificial T reduction (to a level still considerably above any normal/median female athlete) did cost Semenya ~5 secs in the 800m. That might be 15-25 in the 3k-5k...

They are extraordinary only because of high T, otherwise they drop from medal candidates to barely making a final as Semenya with reduction showed.

they need to be stopped, it's not fair

Hassan can go 1:56-3:51-8:15 probably-14 low-29:06. 3 of those pr's are real, the other two speculative.

But athletes like Niyonsaba should not have been allowed to compete against women when there are common sense testosterone restrictions on female athletes.

zxcvzxcv wrote:

Hassan can go 1:56-3:51-8:15 probably-14 low-29:06. 3 of those pr's are real, the other two speculative.

But athletes like Niyonsaba should not have been allowed to compete against women when there are common sense testosterone restrictions on female athletes.

At this rate Niyonsaba will be breaking world records in 2022. It's out of control.

Where are all the feminists? An individual with testicles is taking all the prize money in women's races.

thoughtsfailure wrote:

zxcvzxcv wrote:

Hassan can go 1:56-3:51-8:15 probably-14 low-29:06. 3 of those pr's are real, the other two speculative.

But athletes like Niyonsaba should not have been allowed to compete against women when there are common sense testosterone restrictions on female athletes.

At this rate Niyonsaba will be breaking world records in 2022. It's out of control.

I doubt it 8:06 for 3000 Is the World Record 13 Seconds is a lot in the 3000, I wonder what she would have run in the Olympics 5000? If she had not been disqualified in the Heats?

high school xc coach wrote:

Jo72 wrote:

We know the answer to the question. There was no woman in existence before who has run 1:55 and 8:19. Does anyone think Mu could run 8:19 with one year focus on long distance?

Niyonsaba is not in wrong event but in the wrong class.

Do we know if Koko or Cranny might run 8:10 or 8:00 if they were brought to Niyonsaba's T-level artificially? Mu might run 1:49 with a bit more T?

Maybe someone is volunteering to try...

hassan closest thing to something like this.

something needs to be done quickly. the craziest thing is how quickly it has happened and how much potential she still has for growth.

Niyonsaba did NOTHING WRONG, She was born that Way, Wouldn't Intersex have a big disadvantage against Men? The same condition she was born with that helps her against Woman would disadvantage her against Men.

That said how do the people Justify The New Zealand Weightlifter? and The 2 Connecticut high schoolers? and the Division 2 400 Hurdler? They were BORN MALE and they let them compete as Women, yet people complain about people who are Born with a Condition.

I can't justify being against someone who was born with a Condition, On the Other Hand The Men Pretending to be Woman are pure Evil, Cheating to the Max, worse than Ped's.

douglas burke wrote:

Niyonsaba did NOTHING WRONG, She was born that Way, Wouldn't Intersex have a big disadvantage against Men? The same condition she was born with that helps her against Woman would disadvantage her against Men.

...

I agree 100% with the first part.

These stupid posts that talk badly about women who were born in a certain way makes me sick.

They are not taking PEDs

They are following the rules

To extend the rules more would exclude them completely

Might as well exclude all East Africans from distance running. They have a clear advantage.

Coincidence that Canadian and US 5000m records are held by East Africans? East African population is very small in both the US and Canada.

So lay off with unfair genetic advantages

These women did nothing wrong (nor did the East Africans).

thoughtsfailure wrote:

they need to be stopped, it's not fair

When the rules came out that were very clearly focused upon Caster Semenya, basically saying it's cool to compete as DSD as long as it's a distance Caster can't medal in. So so stupid how they did that.

Such a huge mistake with zero foresight. Because now they are going to try to change the rule again and it's going to be seen as targeting just a few individuals who complied with the rules and then once they found success more rules were made to keep them out.

Personally a fan of Niyonsaba's spirit. Was banned from her best event. Defiantly got back up on her feet and has been hugely successful. It's inspiring on a personal level even if the bigger picture is a total clusterfk still.

WA did everything wrong. Nobody blames Niyonsaba.

Do you really want to turn women's athletics into a DSD freak show?

Where coaches "hunt" among 3rd world populations with high proportions of DSD runners?

"Born that way" implies no right to compete in the women's division when the anatomy is not like normal females, namely xy chromosomes, no ovaries, no monthly cycle (this advantage was recently mentioned in another thread) and testosterone levels that are *way* beyond normal females.

The advantages are obvious. We know this from the time when Semenya had to reduce her T levels and was a shadow of herself (she also looked far more female during this time period). And her T levels were even with the forced reduction still far higher than average females.

That is, the cleanest thing would be to ban them from competing against women. The next best thing would be allow participation with forced reduction of T-levels so they would be comparable to xx women. The current situation with a ban in a few events only is a disgrace.

And they make the sport visually unattractive. It is creepy to see an androgynous person (at best, sometimes more andro than gynous) clearly sticking out (both in body shape and movement) among female competitors. I don't really know what's wrong with people who have lost their antenna for this weirdness. It's not quite as pronounced with Niyonsaba as with others but still obvious.

numberguru wrote:

Personally a fan of Niyonsaba's spirit. Was banned from her best event. Defiantly got back up on her feet and has been hugely successful.

This is also a clear indication that the DSD/T advantage was hugely underestimated (probably simply due to lack of data). It works for any event.

wejo wrote:

Very impressive run. Only 3 Chinese women and Sifan Hassan are faster outdoors and Dibaba faster indoors.

This begs the questions was Niyonsaba in the wrong event the entire time? She won't get to run a 1500 as the DSD regulations prevent it but would 1500 have been her best event?

Ejgayehu Taye was 2nd in 8:19.52, has run 14:14 for 5000.

Elise Cranny nice PB dropping from 8:40 to 8:30

Admit it. You started this thread so the issue of whether she should be allowed to run in these types of meets could be rehashed yet again.

Jo72 wrote:

We know the answer to the question. There was no woman in existence before who has run 1:55 and 8:19. Does anyone think Mu could run 8:19 with one year focus on long distance?

Niyonsaba is not in wrong event but in the wrong class.

Do we know if Koko or Cranny might run 8:10 or 8:00 if they were brought to Niyonsaba's T-level artificially? Mu might run 1:49 with a bit more T?

Maybe someone is volunteering to try...

Mu is noticeably faster over the 400m. Maybe she just didn't run enough 400m but 53.5 is a long, long way from 49.6. Are these times really that different from Slaneys 153/156/826/1506 30 years ago? Or Jacobs 158/1445? Kazankina's 155/822? Ivan's 156/827? Lots of 800/1500m guys out there and most of them can do a decent 3k time. Most of above were also preEpo. They had to do it the old fashion way with steroids and blood transfusions....

Not impressive at all.

I've gone faster than that and nobody cared, because it's not that fast.

While I agree that the regulations for DSD athletes will probably need to be revised at some point, I think it is important to remember that you can't draw too strong of a conclusion from a single athlete.

What I'm saying is this: the governing bodies said that it is fair for DSD athletes to compete at certain distances (outside of the 400m - 1500m range). Just assume for a moment that that was the correct decision - what is wrong with what Niyonsaba has done? After all, she hasn't actually broken any world records, or even won an Olympic medal. She's won some races - but somebody has to win them! You can't say on the one hand, it's fair for DSD athletes to compete in certain events, but on the other hand, they can't actually win these events, or run really fast times.

The point is, the IAAF made their regulations, and you can't necessarily say that the mere fact that some DSD athletes are among the top competitors in the still-allowed events means that those regulations have failed. The regulations weren't supposed to stop DSD athletes from having any chance to be competitive. Now if DSD athletes start crushing world records and dominating the medal podiums, that will make it more obvious that action is needed. But in an obviously complicated and contentious debate, I don't think the fact that one single DSD athlete has run top-5 all-time in the 2-mile/3k range means that the whole project has been a failure.

She was raised as a woman, and she believes she's a woman. i can totally understand and respect that.

HOWEVER,

she's really a man.

The answer is simple.

We need another division.

For those who thought that maybe long events wouldn’t matter at all guess what It does we knew that f answer. I f get it is not their fault Born that way but simply not fair for the other women.

Have u ever seen an 800m guy moving to the 3000-5000m and months later beat world class athletes? NO right because it is fkn impossible!!!

I had enough of this f bs.