What is a lactate shuttle?

It is a theory about the lactate produced one place is shuttled to other places in that cell or to other cells (close or more distante to other muscles or organs) for use (energy production). I guess it is substantiated enough to not just being a wild idea, but a fact and this ability is very important for a runner.

Lactate is produced at any time so the body balances it until the intensity reaches tempo/threshold area where the elevated lactate levels can be measured. This is a sign that the body is not capable of balancing it, or more correctly the body is able to keep the lactate levels at a certain level for a certain time. With training the body can cope with higher levels over longer time which translates to faster running over the race distance. Any training especially at an elevated lactate intensity will train the shuttling, but close to the lactate threshold is seen as effective in doing that since one can do this training for quite long without too much recovery need. Many workout styles can train the effect such as reps, tempo, alternations, fartleks, and so on.

I have no knowledge of what workout is especially effective. But I do think that reps with running recovery such as alternations or fartleks are especially good at elevating the lactate and then use the lactate for energy ALSO in the recovery and not only during the rep.

Google George Brooks and Peter Thompson.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=george+brooks+lactate+shuttle&docid=608021314588197677&mid=CB01758EE93332D7A729CB01758EE93332D7A729&view=detail&FORM=VIRE

A George Brooks lecture from 2017

https://www.sportsperformancebulletin.com/endurance-training/high-intensity-training/pump-lactate-shuttle-make-lactate-friend-not-foe/

A general primer article about how it is applied

https://www.newintervaltraining.com/

Peter Thompson's site describing lactate shuttle and workouts

Perfect post!

I got inspired (again). I have used plenty of alternations but around threshold pace, which is hard (too hard for the purpose).

I also did a lot of reps with moderate recovery but longer.

Acc to the links, float should NOT produce, but clear lactate, still being as hard as possible. I guess 2 hour race pace (M pace for fast runners) is the upper pace in the float as it often is the intensity lactate will start elevating.

floating through the recovery will make the fast reps harder (Rupp could do just 24 200s at 1500 pace even if the float was way slower above his M-pace. That tells something about that the "quality" of the reps go down, but the lactate clearance is the focus and not the fast rep itself.

Jon Arne Glomsrud wrote:

... lactate clearance is the focus and not the fast rep itself.

What? Why?

taskmaster wrote:

Jon Arne Glomsrud wrote:

... lactate clearance is the focus and not the fast rep itself.

What? Why?

Because that's what you are trying to improve with LT training.

4523 wrote:

taskmaster wrote:

What? Why?

Because that's what you are trying to improve with LT training.

Exactly, that was what the link provided explained. Such alternations btw fast and float is for the lactate clearance purpose and not specifically the rep pace (even if this might also be a very specific workout to train for a race and endurance at race pace). Normal specific race pace reps with standing or jogging rest has still its important place.

4523 wrote:

taskmaster wrote:

What? Why?

Because that's what you are trying to improve with LT training.

No it's not. That makes no sense.

taskmaster wrote:

4523 wrote:

Because that's what you are trying to improve with LT training.

OK saying that this what you improve by LT training is not exactly right. LT training is much more than alternations...

No it's not. That makes no sense.

Jon Arne Glomsrud wrote:

4523 wrote:

Because that's what you are trying to improve with LT training.

Exactly, that was what the link provided explained. Such alternations btw fast and float is for the lactate clearance purpose and not specifically the rep pace (even if this might also be a very specific workout to train for a race and endurance at race pace). Normal specific race pace reps with standing or jogging rest has still its important place.

Describe the purpose of what you are claiming in both Bioenergetic and Biomechanical terms?

Just saying "Lactate clearance" is meaningless jargon.

Jon Arne Glomsrud wrote:

Perfect post!

I got inspired (again). I have used plenty of alternations but around threshold pace, which is hard (too hard for the purpose).

I also did a lot of reps with moderate recovery but longer.

Acc to the links, float should NOT produce, but clear lactate, still being as hard as possible. I guess 2 hour race pace (M pace for fast runners) is the upper pace in the float as it often is the intensity lactate will start elevating.

floating through the recovery will make the fast reps harder (Rupp could do just 24 200s at 1500 pace even if the float was way slower above his M-pace. That tells something about that the "quality" of the reps go down, but the lactate clearance is the focus and not the fast rep itself.

These are good workouts but it is never clear to me if they actually improve things like lactate clearance more than other workouts or if they are just good cause you spend a lot of time at a relatively high VO2max. If it was just about lactate clearance, why do the floats have to be fast and short? Let me alternate 400s at 5k/easy run and I could do like 2x the volume versus running down at MP. Or should we be building lactate during our easy runs (say 400m@10k/1200 easy) in ways that are very tolerable to get more benefits from the time spent training..

A Ferrari isn't just an engine. It's a car.

taskmaster wrote:

Jon Arne Glomsrud wrote:

Exactly, that was what the link provided explained. Such alternations btw fast and float is for the lactate clearance purpose and not specifically the rep pace (even if this might also be a very specific workout to train for a race and endurance at race pace). Normal specific race pace reps with standing or jogging rest has still its important place.

Describe the purpose of what you are claiming in both Bioenergetic and Biomechanical terms?

Just saying "Lactate clearance" is meaningless jargon.

OK Jon Orange.

So people are really talking about two different things here. The lactate shuttle theory is pretty well accepted in the scientific community. It's the means by which carbohydrates can be moved from non-working to working muscles. (At one point it was thought that liver glycogen was the only carbohydrate that could be moved from a storage site to working muscles, but it turns out that's not true.) The theory also describes the way various tissues (the heart, in particular) can use blood lactate as fuel.

Some coaches, however, treat the "lactate shuttle" as synonymous with "lactate clearance." The latter is really just a type of workout where the emphasis is recovering quickly at a fairly fast pace. I don't mean to throw shade at these kinds of workouts; I think they have a place, and I use them from time to time. It's not clear that these workouts are truly training "lactate clearance," even though that's what they're called, and the connection between these workouts and the lactate shuttle theory, as understood by actual scientists, is pretty shaky.

My personal view is that "lactate clearance" workouts are mostly valuable for mental reasons. The knowledge that you are not going to get an easy jog on your recovery can act as a disciplining force, so you don't go crazy for the "on" portions of your workout. You also develop a mental toughness for longer efforts when you know that you aren't really getting a break until it's all over, and even more specifically, you teach yourself that you can, in fact, recover while moving pretty fast. So if you get in too deep, perhaps in an XC race, you're less likely to have your spirit totally broken and limp in. Physiologically, I think these workouts are usually pretty similar to tempo runs of similar duration.

What is a lactate shuttle?

It’s a shuttle bus full of pregnant lactating women.

Ofa lon teh.

800 dude wrote:

The lactate shuttle theory is pretty well accepted in the scientific community. It's the means by which carbohydrates can be moved from non-working to working muscles.

Try again.

taskmaster wrote:

Jon Arne Glomsrud wrote:

Exactly, that was what the link provided explained. Such alternations btw fast and float is for the lactate clearance purpose and not specifically the rep pace (even if this might also be a very specific workout to train for a race and endurance at race pace). Normal specific race pace reps with standing or jogging rest has still its important place.

Describe the purpose of what you are claiming in both Bioenergetic and Biomechanical terms?

Just saying "Lactate clearance" is meaningless jargon.

Sorry, to be clear, lactate shutling was what I was refering to and I just refered to the link and what I understood was written there. I tend to use the word clearance for the same effect.

I guess moving the lactate to another place where it can be used (and faster) also means the acidity by the H+ ions also is reduced, meaning my hard working muscles will work better

Got a bright idea to change my longer reps workouts with moderate rest running, like 2-3 minutes instead of 2min standing/jogging. It basically did not change my performance and even if being tired from the rep, huffing and puffing, moderate running feels slow and I quickly got used to it. I have changed to jog rest, even standing rest and now I am used to that, thinking running faster is hard...all in the mental

I'm no exercise physiologist but my interpretation is that while tempo, LT and lactate shuttle all technically might be a little bit different, they're all basically ways to train your body to deal with lactic acid build up in a positive way, instead of allowing it to shut your performance down, physically and psychologically.

We can all feel that uncomfortable place, somewhere between easy running and fast running, where the change in the chemistry occurs. These concepts and techniques are all about working in that place in a way that maximizes performance, physically and mentally. I could be wrong. But I think (?) that's the point they're trying to get across.

Experts, feel free to correct where I'm wrong.

taskmaster wrote:

800 dude wrote:

The lactate shuttle theory is pretty well accepted in the scientific community. It's the means by which carbohydrates can be moved from non-working to working muscles.

Try again.

G. Ahlborg et al. wrote:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC423452/

These coincident but discordant processes in the leg and arm during recovery suggest the occurrence of a redistribution of muscle glycogen from previously resting (leg) muscle to previously exercising (arm) muscle.