Overreaction or fact? Frerichs officially passes Coburn as #1 US Steepler ever

FACT.....Courtney is faster and a better Olympic runner.

Coburn has more than just 10 US titles though. She also has the global hardware, set some ARs, won Diamond League races, and dominates the head to head matchup. Boiling it down to just an Olympic Silver is for SIMPletons.

Frerichs better: Olympic Silver + 4 out of top 6 All-Time

https://www.worldathletics.org/records/all-time-toplists/middle-long/3000-metres-steeplechase/outdoor/women/senior?regionType=countries&region=usa&page=1&bestResultsOnly=false&firstDay=1899-12-31&lastDay=2021-08-23

That is impressive. It is not nearly as impressive as Coburn’s resume, though.

US championships only matters, in

non-global-championship years . Otherwise, most athletes don't peak for the trial (If they can make the team with out peaking).

Courtny Frerichs has, the two fastest time by an American (8:57 and 9:00), an Olympic Silver, and a worlds Silver.

Even though, it's very close, Courtney is the best American steepler ever. Emma have to run Sub_9, if she wants to get that title back.

It's not close. Frerichs had the better year, by far. But she's still only 1-3 against Coburn in global championships. 2-18 overall and, yes, US championships matter. Coburn has broken the AR three times, Frerichs twice. Coburn has the better Diamond League record.

I can't believe this is even being debated. Will Frerichs eventually earn the title as GOAT American steepler? Possibly, but it's not close at this time.

Frerichs is the fastest ever. Records exist. Feelings don't make a runner faster than another.

Dr. Fowci wrote:

Frerichs is the fastest ever. Records exist. Feelings don't make a runner faster than another.

You’re telling me Nicholas Kirwa is a better marathoner than Sammy Wanjirubwas because his PR is faster?

prognog wrote:

That is impressive. It is not nearly as impressive as Coburn’s resume, though.

Olympic Silver plus being a much nicer person wins the day .

« Coburn has broken the AR three times, Frerichs twice. »

It's like comparing Stacy Dagila to Sandi Morris.

Steeple is like pole vault back then, a newer event lacking the depth, history and strong performances of other established events.

Although Frerichs is only 2,5 years younger, my point is that Coburn is the Stacy Dragila of the steeple and Frerichs is the Sandi Morris one. Less medals and titles for the former, but an overall better athlete! Now, time has changed and 9:05-10 steeple times won't do it anymore on the big stage!

Stop with the nonsense! To me, other results over other distances also matters. Coburn's 5000m PR of 15:24 is pale in comparison with the 14:50 Frerichs ran recently. Since, running a 3000 steeple is more like a 5k effort, this stat is interesting ann clearly demonstrate Frerichs is a better overall runner and has way more room to improve, as the best US steepler ever!!!!

Faster = Better

ROJO GO HOME DEVASTATED

Probably 50% Coburn continues after this year, and less than that to PR, break 9. So using probability wise, 0.5X0.33 = .167 (1 in 6) chance she runs sub 9 and continues to beat Frerichs over the next year.

There's also a decent chance (maybe 50%) that Coburn continues and will from now on be second fiddle--that's maybe 0.5X0.5 = 0.25 (1 in 4 for the math challenged here).

The other likelihood is that Coburn retires and Frerichs continues to improve on her record. Another sub 9 or a few, maybe another PR among them, and another world medal, plus the next two or three national titles. Probably put that in the 25% to 35% probability range. At that point I’d give the nod to Frerichs but in the Dragila-Morris model.

However, if Coburn retires and for whatever reason Frerichs does not improve on her current record of accomplishments (no or just one or two US titles, no world medals, no more sub 9s), then the debate would continue and maybe Coburn gets the nod.

Also wondering if both are done for the year. There is one more Diamond League in Zurich and doubt we’ll see a rematch.

This is the 154th post.. so turns out it is arguable :)

Also, what happens when you are actually crowned the Best in the US… AND prove you’re THEE Best in the world (as in #1 in the world, not 1st loser) and the top American finisher? Is that worth anything? Hypothetically speaking of course…

non O wrote:

It's not close. Frerichs had the better year, by far. But she's still only 1-3 against Coburn in global championships. 2-18 overall and, yes, US championships matter. Coburn has broken the AR three times, Frerichs twice. Coburn has the better Diamond League record.

I can't believe this is even being debated. Will Frerichs eventually earn the title as GOAT American steepler? Possibly, but it's not close at this time.

This is a good debate but people need to stop mentioning the head to head record, it's not relevant unless their peaks coincided perfectly. When Coburn was at her first Olympics Frerichs was still only running 10:35 for the steeple, so yeah, I'm guessing Coburn has racked up a lot of wins over the years.

world champion over silver medal anyday!

For most of the world ....

you can't try to burn us out, cause Frerichs can hang with you

you can't sit back and kick, cause in the end, Coburn is stronger than you

Coburn is our most dominant ever.

Frerichs is our fastest, in the right race, right now.

This is, Kenya has a waiting room a hundred girls deep.

We have ...

Screw who's better, we have WORK to do.