Why do most US male High School XC runners plateau around 16:30 for 5K

..you're not gonna like the answer, but most kids 'train/run' too hard in practice. That's my opinion. American Culture is way too caught up in "harder, faster, longer," in practice is going to make me better. Maybe in the Business World, max effort, "balls to the wall," works but not gaurantees in running.

Aerobic running is foreign to these kids. Dr. Phil Maffetone explains pretty well. Even Jack Daniels covers the benefits of easy running.

16:30 is ok, but most as they hit that mark, go on to believe now they have run faster, or run anerobically and that never works.

This next statement will appear 'blasphamous', but Prefontaine would've run faster if he didn't always blast his workouts. I recall reading once when Bill Dillinger was still training. They went on a run with Pre and he tried to hammer them. Pre kept asking "am I running too fast for you?"

I've seen over the years, many kids bust their butts in practice and leaving their best races on the track. Again, maybe in Business that mentality works, but there's no guarantees that method works in running.

Finally, simply my opinion. Don't shoot the messenger.

Go to Youtube and listen to Phil Maffetone explain how Norwegian great Grete Waitz, while working hard, mostly trained 'aerobically.'

Peace Kids!

CC For Me wrote:

Most people do not understand the calculation of "average". You must add ALL finish times up and divide by number of finishers. Median means middle and helps account for big outliers. There are plenty of data sources available. The actual averages will be remarkably slower than the "pulled from a hat" numbers in this thread.

See this thread post on Iowa median times.

https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=5129227

Any number of reasons can be made up to explain away slow times, but data are facts.

True, should be more careful when using the word “average”. More correctly put, based on my experiences as a participant and fan a 16:30 male talent is what I would classify as a solid baseline varsity talent. Above average but not exceptional. Depending at what age that time was run and how much coaching was required for the athlete to run that time. I ran 16:16 5k my senior year with only 3 years of formal coaching.

I think this is it. I see so many that hit daily mileage in practice too hard. They end up in the middle zone for every training run. They end up around 16:00 to 16:30 for a 5k. The win a fair amount of races and get reinforcement that busting their butt on every run is working. These same kids can crank out 6:00/ mile to sub 6:00/ mile tempo runs on a regular basis. However, they never progress in races because they are too tired.

American high school coached need to learn that there is a time to run hard and a time to put in easy miles. They also need to coach!!! That means watching their runners, monitoring their paces and teaching the athletes to control their efforts. You know, make sure they run fast when they should run fast and make sure run easy when they should run easy. I think too many coaches just prescribe mileage and leave it up to the kids to determine their daily pace. The kids inevitably go too fast most of the time.

CC For Me wrote:

Most people do not understand the calculation of "average". You must add ALL finish times up and divide by number of finishers. Median means middle and helps account for big outliers. There are plenty of data sources available. The actual averages will be remarkably slower than the "pulled from a hat" numbers in this thread.

See this thread post on Iowa median times.

https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=5129227

Any number of reasons can be made up to explain away slow times, but data are facts.

I didn't say anything about average. My original post said most TOP TEAMS plateau around 16:30. I would assume that the average time is actually much slower that 16:30.

Professor, I don't think you need to explain the difference between average and median to anyone who responded. I'm pretty sure most people who responded understood the original premise.

giantdave1 and not so sweet 16 have it exactly right.

Over time, in an absolutely correct effort to get away from LSD and junk miles, too many coaches and athletes swung too far the other way. They reached a point of if you're not really running at a legitimate pace, you're not accomplishing anything. This is completely wrong when it's interpreted to mean all distance runs must be at a pace that is at least moderately challenging.

This is far from the only factor, but it's a key ingredient in the cause of why so many high school distance runners hit a plateau, can't break through it, and are unable to continue a successful running career past high school.