Improving leg speed

Run up a steep 50 meter hill (7 reps, full recovery) every other day. Do occasional squats, high weight and very low reps.

Foreman22 wrote:

I'm a high school boy, and I've always been more the endurance type of runner. As I prepare for my senior year of cross country, I understand that the really talented runners, even in high school XC, are usually the ones with some leg speed. Does anyone have constructive advice on how to improve this? Strides, certain strength exercises, etc? Thank you.

I see threads like this all the time but it's not possible to improve top-end speed. If it was, everyone could become a 9:00 2-miler. I ran with guys at SDSU that were sub-9:00 in HS and the difference between them and me was top-end speed and I was never going to close the gap.

see alberto salazar

SDSU Aztec wrote:

Foreman22 wrote:

I'm a high school boy, and I've always been more the endurance type of runner. As I prepare for my senior year of cross country, I understand that the really talented runners, even in high school XC, are usually the ones with some leg speed. Does anyone have constructive advice on how to improve this? Strides, certain strength exercises, etc? Thank you.

I see threads like this all the time but it's not possible to improve top-end speed. If it was, everyone could become a 9:00 2-miler. I ran with guys at SDSU that were sub-9:00 in HS and the difference between them and me was top-end speed and I was never going to close the gap.

True. The only expected improvement is speed endurance, holding top speed for a little longer each year until we achieve our lifetime best 400m time.

SDSU Aztec wrote:

Foreman22 wrote:

I'm a high school boy, and I've always been more the endurance type of runner. As I prepare for my senior year of cross country, I understand that the really talented runners, even in high school XC, are usually the ones with some leg speed. Does anyone have constructive advice on how to improve this? Strides, certain strength exercises, etc? Thank you.

I see threads like this all the time but it's not possible to improve top-end speed. If it was, everyone could become a 9:00 2-miler. I ran with guys at SDSU that were sub-9:00 in HS and the difference between them and me was top-end speed and I was never going to close the gap.

True. The only expected improvement is speed endurance, holding top speed for a little longer each year until we achieve our lifetime best 400m time.

SDSU Aztec wrote:

Foreman22 wrote:

I'm a high school boy, and I've always been more the endurance type of runner. As I prepare for my senior year of cross country, I understand that the really talented runners, even in high school XC, are usually the ones with some leg speed. Does anyone have constructive advice on how to improve this? Strides, certain strength exercises, etc? Thank you.

I see threads like this all the time but it's not possible to improve top-end speed. If it was, everyone could become a 9:00 2-miler. I ran with guys at SDSU that were sub-9:00 in HS and the difference between them and me was top-end speed and I was never going to close the gap.

<sarc>Yes, this is why sprinters never ever train.</sarc> Rolls eyes.

OP, please see the 5x60m thread and disregard what SDSU Aztec says:

Another SDSU Aztec wrote:

SDSU Aztec wrote:

I see threads like this all the time but it's not possible to improve top-end speed. If it was, everyone could become a 9:00 2-miler. I ran with guys at SDSU that were sub-9:00 in HS and the difference between them and me was top-end speed and I was never going to close the gap.

<sarc>Yes, this is why sprinters never ever train.</sarc> Rolls eyes.

OP, please see the 5x60m thread and disregard what SDSU Aztec says:

https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=7836514

So how much do you think a slow-twitch guy with 60 second 400 speed can improve? If you say he can improve to 56, why can't the 9:00 guy with the 54 speed improve to 50?

There have been plenty of guys with excellent top-ehd speed that didn't run 6×60m drills. Typing this jind stuff doesn't mean it works.

SDSU Aztec wrote:

Another SDSU Aztec wrote:

<sarc>Yes, this is why sprinters never ever train.</sarc> Rolls eyes.

OP, please see the 5x60m thread and disregard what SDSU Aztec says:

https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=7836514

So how much do you think a slow-twitch guy with 60 second 400 speed can improve? If you say he can improve to 56, why can't the 9:00 guy with the 54 speed improve to 50?

There have been plenty of guys with excellent top-ehd speed that didn't run 6×60m drills. Typing this jind stuff doesn't mean it works.

Perhaps with the raw-speed development work they would have been faster. Typing that it doesn't work doesn't mean it doesn't work.

And don't you think an improvement, such as in the example you gave, from 60 to 56 seconds per 400m is significant? I'm tempted to say it is "huge."

skidoo wrote:

SDSU Aztec wrote:

So how much do you think a slow-twitch guy with 60 second 400 speed can improve? If you say he can improve to 56, why can't the 9:00 guy with the 54 speed improve to 50?

There have been plenty of guys with excellent top-ehd speed that didn't run 6×60m drills. Typing this jind stuff doesn't mean it works.

Perhaps with the raw-speed development work they would have been faster. Typing that it doesn't work doesn't mean it doesn't work.

And don't you think an improvement, such as in the example you gave, from 60 to 56 seconds per 400m is significant? I'm tempted to say it is "huge."

Some posters have suggested lifting heavy weights with low reps which would result in bulking up. I don't know how much that would help top-end speed but for sure, it would hinder distancing running.

60 to 56 is a huge difference, which could result in a 30 second improvement in the 2-mile and which is why it's impossible. You can't fight genetics.

You need to stop seeing yourself as "more the endurance type of runner."

Shift your mindset to something more along the lines of "I am a fast runner with good endurance."

You also can change your mindset when you are at practice. Stop thinking of running as an effort, and start thinking about it as a skill. Speedwork is not just running as hard as you can, you are practicing running fast. For race-pace/tempo/threshold type workouts, you are practicing staying as relaxed and smooth as possible while running at those speeds.

If you're looking for specific exercises, you can't go wrong with squats and pull-ups. I have seen a lot of runners who see themselves as "more the endurance type" who are actually proud of their lack of upper body strength. Don't be one of those dweebs. (Not saying that people without upper body strength are necessarily dweebs, but if someone your age doesn't have it and doesn't care, something is wrong with them.)

SDSU Aztec wrote:

skidoo wrote:

Perhaps with the raw-speed development work they would have been faster. Typing that it doesn't work doesn't mean it doesn't work.

And don't you think an improvement, such as in the example you gave, from 60 to 56 seconds per 400m is significant? I'm tempted to say it is "huge."

Some posters have suggested lifting heavy weights with low reps which would result in bulking up. I don't know how much that would help top-end speed but for sure, it would hinder distancing running.

60 to 56 is a huge difference, which could result in a 30 second improvement in the 2-mile and which is why it's impossible. You can't fight genetics.

you arent going to gain bulk by lifting heavy. There is a reason why people looking to gain mass lift more volume and lower weights. Throw in diet and the energy spent running and you arent gaining mass. just dont waste your lifting routine doing bicep curls and the like.

You can definitely improve leg speed with strength training, plyos, and sprints. if that improvement is 2s or 4s? who knows. But remember you need to get faster in the context of being a distance guy. You arent a 200m guy who can spend 5+ hours working on speed. your a distance guy who wants to spend like an 90 mins ( 2 30 min lifting sessio s and 2 15 min sprint sessions) around your distance work.

My high school was fortunate to have an assistant coach who was at San Jose State with Lee Evans and Tommie Smith. He showed us how to sprint at the end of races by maintaining sprinter form: arms driving like pistons, legs coming up with thighs getting nearly perpendicular to the ground, leaning forward into the sprint, getting the back foot high and trying to kick your butt. We would shift to that form 150 meters out from the finish. Worked great. But you need someone who knows to watch and help make sure it's done properly, too.

https://www.shutterstock.com/editorial/image-editorial/sport-3087586a

Total BS.

Top speed is definitely trainable.

However, you can't improve top speed without training it. You saying you don't believe it is trainable suggests that you likely don't. Too many people assume the fact their top end doesn't improve off large volumes of sustained running and a few occasional submaximal strides means it isn't trainable. It's like saying it's impossible to learn piano because you've been playing violin for years and yet your piano isn't any better.

As regards weight training, it can help, but it's probably one of the less useful things you can do. The key thing is actually sprinting. Run 5x flying 30m off 6 minutes rest once a week for a couple of months and your top speed will definitely improve.

As others have mentioned already. Hills. Sham69 has gave you the best advice. Although i would round up to 10 with full recovery

GGGG wrote:

Total BS.

Top speed is definitely trainable.

However, you can't improve top speed without training it. You saying you don't believe it is trainable suggests that you likely don't. Too many people assume the fact their top end doesn't improve off large volumes of sustained running and a few occasional submaximal strides means it isn't trainable. It's like saying it's impossible to learn piano because you've been playing violin for years and yet your piano isn't any better.

As regards weight training, it can help, but it's probably one of the less useful things you can do. The key thing is actually sprinting. Run 5x flying 30m off 6 minutes rest once a week for a couple of months and your top speed will definitely improve.

Top speed is top speed. It's limited genetically.

Hitting top speed is another matter.

And how many musical instruments do you play to be so confident of your analogy?

Top speed is limited genetically in the same way that intellectual capability, strength or endurance is genetically limited. So few ever get anywhere near achieving their limits that they are irrelevant. Everyone can train to get nearer to their limits. Very few bother to train speed, so don't appreciate its trainability.

I play 3 instruments. Piano, guitar and violin. If I don't practice one, it suffers. There is some cross over in terms of understanding the theory, in the same way that keeping oneself active through steady running probably improves sprint performance more than sitting on the sofa eating chips does, but if I want my piano playing on point, I practice playing piano.

Hills are useful in terms of training acceleration mechanics and improving leg strength. The nature of the hill means that there is a resistance that prevents you achieving higher intensities.

Actual top end sprints are the best thing you can do. Hills are still good, but would be a secondary activity after that.

6345789 wrote:

Top speed is top speed. It's limited genetically.

Hitting top speed is another matter.

And how many musical instruments do you play to be so confident of your analogy?

Aerobic capacity is genetically limited also. So you don't need to do any training for it?

The issue for distance guys is that this isn't something they can spent a lot of time optimizing. I ran a pretty legit 56 in a time trial. I have no doubt I could have run a 53/54 if really trained for the event. But doing so would have ment running 20mpw instead of 80 and making a slew of tradeoffs that would hurt distance performance. You end doing the few things that give you good bang for the buck(short sprints, the lifting you are doing for running economy anyway, and maybe a few plyo drills) and get back to running miles.

fkkfkfkfkf wrote:

6345789 wrote:

Top speed is top speed. It's limited genetically.

Hitting top speed is another matter.

And how many musical instruments do you play to be so confident of your analogy?

Aerobic capacity is genetically limited also. So you don't need to do any training for it?

The issue for distance guys is that this isn't something they can spent a lot of time optimizing. I ran a pretty legit 56 in a time trial. I have no doubt I could have run a 53/54 if really trained for the event. But doing so would have ment running 20mpw instead of 80 and making a slew of tradeoffs that would hurt distance performance. You end doing the few things that give you good bang for the buck(short sprints, the lifting you are doing for running economy anyway, and maybe a few plyo drills) and get back to running miles.

Don't confuse Aerobic Capacity with Aerobic Endurance.

And don't confuse top speed with 400m speed.