MY THEORY ON SUN JINGJIE'S "POSITIVE" TEST

Delusional stuff, almost comical.

I didn't know Sun's career was so long, but the first thing i thought was this is a set up. If you were tested 2 days earlier and came up clean, why would you start taking drugs immediately after that, especially since they would not benefit you for the current championships? I would not call you crazy on this one.

There IS something strange here. What drug? Is anyone other than Chinese Nationals observing any aspects of the Games? You'd think that China would invite IAAF or other international officials if they want to ensure honesty / openness.

There IS something strange here. What drug? Is anyone other than Chinese Nationals observing any aspects of the Games? You'd think that China would invite IAAF or other international officials if they want to ensure honesty / openness.

Jason

We agree on something imagine that and I honestly think your right on the money. Some posters thought I was crazy when I said in 2004 China would be a threat for topping the medal count at the Olympics. I still feel that there are going to be a rewriting of the WJR's between now and Olympics 2008. The MAJORITY of China's medal will come from juniors a few maybe 20-22 but NOT MANY will be older and medal. In the thread about "China: Superpower slowing awakening" I mention the day after Sun Yingjie marathon and 10000m double that her blood should be preserved and retested later if she past China's doping test.

Along with you I agree that Sun seems to be the token superstar placed in the spotlight in an effort to cast an illusion on China's real goal: Replacing the U.S. atop of the medal count. Its begun ladies and gentlemen now lets hope U.S. can stay ahead of China's female sprints, distance, and field. The U.S. men have less to worry about but need to worry only in the field events and hurdles about losing their potential medals to Chinese. China athletes unior men and women will continue to make leaps and bounds in improvement between now and 2008 Olympics.

A slight aside: I'm always amazed at IAAF page in that they stay away from the real and controversial stories. THIS is a BIG STORY! HELLO!!! Is it ANYWHERE at IAAF? I feel that they are afraid to be open about these things, and it looks bad on IAAF. Does anyone agree?

Vipam, why can young Chinese make these leaps and bounds, but not USA? I mean, surely there's LOTS of room for improvement in USA distance running?

I'm sorry, but SCREW THE MEDAL COUNT!!! Who cares? Are the Kenyan's sending a swimming team?

But how do you explain the "triple?"

Going from racing a marathon to 10K to 5k in 3 days and performing at a very high level is absolutely ridiculous.

I don't think Paula could pull that off.

Exactly.

Hey Jason, while I think your theory makes some sense, I do think that Sun's guilt and the act of China "setting her up," don't have to be mutally exclusive. Well, let me rephrase that: her being guilty, and China using her a "SACRIFICIAL LAMB" could likely be the combination of events that happened here.

I certainly agree with your sentiments that

A) China is preparing undetectable drugs and drugging their athletes with an eye on dominating the 2008 games, and also that

B) they needed to bust one of their own to give the appearance that they are being tough on drugs.

But I think many of us are even more cynical than you when it comes to the Chinese women performers. That triple that Sun just pulled off was so extraordinary, I don't doubt that she really WAS on something. Clearly the Chinese "powers-that-be" would have known that, but with winks and nods allowed her to continue her drug regimen (probably on the "old drugs", not the new ones they are preparing). Then they encouraged her to do her mind-bending-triple, and then "WHAM".....they nailed her (ie, actually tested her for the drugs they knew she was on). I mean, it is not like she is going to speak out and say "my federation KNEW I was on something, and they encouraged me to do it. This is hypocrisy!" If she did THAT....she knows she would disappear. So all she can do is say " I am innocent." And such initial protests look good really, because isn't that the NORMAL response to a drug positive, saying "I am innocent" ? Of cousrse it is. Maybe later the Chinese federation will force her to confess to show that Chinese athletes eventually admit their errors. (but if she immediately admitted her guilt it would completely smack of a manufactured/set-up admission. Denying guilt looks initially looks more real, the appearance they want)

So in short, I agree that the Chinese are preparing the ultimate drugged squads for 2008, and also desperately want to give a false appearance of being tough on drugs prior to those games. And yes, I think Sun was "set up" in a sense. But more accurately, she was the "SACRIFICIAL LAMB." If she were REALLY clean, why wouldn't the Chinese federation just give her all those drugs you think that they are preparing ?????

(

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Think about it, if she could pull off that triple that she just did clean, then what could she do ON DRUGS??? 2:15 & 29:00 back to back days???

i think mayeroff nailed it on the head. the most cursory study of current (and recent past) chinese political history shows a gov't. intent on "assimilating" with western cultural ideals on the surfuace to maximize a limited economic expansion within the upper class (if you can use such a term in a communist society). since athletics are totally gov't. run, this explanation makes perfect sense.

Will the Chinese hire me?

Speaking more broadly, the Beijing Olympics could be our first showdown China in a much more political context.

MAYEROFF wrote:

Call me nuts, call me crazy, whatever.

Jason

Happily. You're nuts.

Skuj wrote:

Are the Kenyan's sending

"Kenyans"

Skuj wrote:

There IS something strange here. What drug? Is anyone other than Chinese Nationals observing any aspects of the Games? You'd think that China would invite IAAF or other international officials if they want to ensure honesty / openness.

Does anyone other than British nationals observe the British champs? Anyone other than Americans the American trials? No. So what is your point?

MAYEROFF wrote:

(2) I believe that right now, as we speak, Chinese scientists are cooking up undetectable steroids, blood builders and hormones, possibly derived from elements of Chinese medicine. Their efforts are going to make BALCO look like kids playing with a chemistry set in comparison.

This is fantastic. Hoards of shifty Chinese scientists in a big lab with bubbling blue liquids. "Possibly derived from elements of Chinese medicine", this is achingly funny.

You don't work for a living do you? I've often seen this in travellers and others who choose an alternative lifestyle. They don't have the grounding in reality that normal people with a regular routine have, and since they don't use their minds to earn a living, they have invent things to occupy them like conspiracy theories.

voice of reason wrote:

Skuj wrote:

There IS something strange here. What drug? Is anyone other than Chinese Nationals observing any aspects of the Games? You'd think that China would invite IAAF or other international officials if they want to ensure honesty / openness.

Does anyone other than British nationals observe the British champs? Anyone other than Americans the American trials? No. So what is your point?

My point is that China is not open, they know this, they know the world perceives this, .....nevermind.

"(1) The Chinese are going to stop at NOTHING to try to ensure that China will be at the top of the medals table in Beijing. All the well-meaning "international cooperation" that it took them to win the Olympics in the first place is going to fly out the door when August 2008 comes around. "

The same point you make here Jason was muted in Helsinki!! And that included folks working for the IAAF!

voice of reason wrote:

This is fantastic. Hoards of shifty Chinese scientists in a big lab with bubbling blue liquids. "Possibly derived from elements of Chinese medicine", this is achingly funny.

You don't work for a living do you? I've often seen this in travellers and others who choose an alternative lifestyle. They don't have the grounding in reality that normal people with a regular routine have, and since they don't use their minds to earn a living, they have invent things to occupy them like conspiracy theories.

Yeah, your post just makes TONS of sense. (duly note sarcasm)

1) Yup, the idea of a closed communist society coming up with a clandestine, well researched, well oganized, systematic doping plan in order to prove the superiority of their people and their gov't is just madness, right? Never has it happened before, right? Man, you have a short-term memory. Don't be a damn fool.

2) Your analysis of "travellers" and "alternative lifestyles" vs people working in the "real world" is laughable. Yup, you nailed it, Jason who has lived and trained in China, and all over Asia for that matter, and knows faaaaaar more about China than you is delusional while someone who works in a cubicle 10 hours a day in East Bumf--ck USA, and rarely leaves his little city is much "grounded in reality," and therefore understands China better than he. Excellent point..........................NOT!

Oh yeah, one more thing:

You DO realize that many illegal drugs are " derived from elements of Chinese medicine", don't you?? You found that funny, but are you aware that Ephedra, a banned stimulant (and also one of the main ingredients of crystal meth) comes from the chinese plant/herb Ma Huang?? And yes, it has been used for centuries there as medicine.

That's just one example of a banned substance being "derived ....from Chinese medicince." You want more?

Who's laughing now?

(hint: it is us at you)