The main reason he isn’t the oly GOAT is because he competed in a country club sport vs what someone like Bolt did in the most elemental event(s) in the world.
The main reason he isn’t the oly GOAT is because he competed in a country club sport vs what someone like Bolt did in the most elemental event(s) in the world.
zxcvczxv wrote:
What swimmers would say is that there are four major strokes and he was the best in the world at two of them at multiple distances and the best in the world at the combination of them, as well as the swimmer with the most medals of all by far. At the 2007 World Champs, his leadoff in the 4x100m freestyle was faster than the gold medal winning 100m free. At that meet, he set the world record in the 200m freestyle, which he lowered in his win in 2008. In Beijing, he set an American record in the 100m freestyle in his opening leg of the 4x100m free, 47.51. He has records of 23 Olympic gold medals, including a record 13 individual golds. He was 8 time world swimmer of the year. He has thirty-nine world records. His best 100m free time of 47.77 would have been a world record until 2008, so he was not exactly shabby in the event. But it is true that the vast majority of his individual medals were in the greatest butterfly and medley guy.
100% this. Phelps is unequivocally the greatest SWIMMER of all team. It's not even remotely close the second best. He is not the greatest freestyle swimmer, or the fastest swimmer of all time. He would say he is. Cesar Cielo is the fastest swimmer of all time, but no one, including him, would say he's the greatest of all time.
If someone with a knife was chasing you on land, you would likely run away if unarmed. You wouldn’t race walk and you wouldn’t run backwards.
If someone with a knife was chasing you in water, you would likely swim away if unarmed. You would use the freestyle stroke. You wouldn’t use butterfly, breaststroke, or backstroke.
StrokeMyEgo wrote:
If someone with a knife was chasing you on land, you would likely run away if unarmed. You wouldn’t race walk and you wouldn’t run backwards.
If someone with a knife was chasing you in water, you would likely swim away if unarmed. You would use the freestyle stroke. You wouldn’t use butterfly, breaststroke, or backstroke.
What would you say, does this have to do with anything?
StrokeMyEgo wrote:
If someone with a knife was chasing you on land, you would likely run away if unarmed. You wouldn’t race walk and you wouldn’t run backwards.
If someone with a knife was chasing you in water, you would likely swim away if unarmed. You would use the freestyle stroke. You wouldn’t use butterfly, breaststroke, or backstroke.
But if the guy had a knife he couldn't swim very well at all. He either would have to try and swim with the knife in his hand or between his teeth which would hinder his breathing.
If you're going to come up with outlandish situations I can come up with outlandish ways to get out of them.
The larger point being made is a concession that Michael Phelps is the best all around swimmer in regards to all the disciplines. However, he may not have actually been the fastest swimmer for a majority of his prime. By fastest, I of course mean the fastest using the freestyle stroke. Is this an outlandish claim?
StrokeMyEgo wrote:
The larger point being made is a concession that Michael Phelps is the best all around swimmer in regards to all the disciplines. However, he may not have actually been the fastest swimmer for a majority of his prime. By fastest, I of course mean the fastest using the freestyle stroke. Is this an outlandish claim?
He was never competitive in the 50m free.
MMH wrote:
two out of four is not all wrote:
As far as I know, he just competed internationally in two of those four strokes. How could he have excelled in all four then?
In 2004 US Olympic Trials, Phelps qualified for the games in the 200m back. He dropped it to focus on his other 8 swims for those games. His 1:55.86 at trials would have gotten him Silver at the Olympics to the world record holder. He would have been nearly 2 seconds faster than the swimmer who ended up with Silver.
His 200m breast PB would have him gotten him Bronze at the 2004 Olympics - 0.55 out of gold.
He was pretty good at every stroke. :)
OK, then I want to correct myself, he has excelled in all four strokes.
two out of four is not all wrote:
MMH wrote:
In 2004 US Olympic Trials, Phelps qualified for the games in the 200m back. He dropped it to focus on his other 8 swims for those games. His 1:55.86 at trials would have gotten him Silver at the Olympics to the world record holder. He would have been nearly 2 seconds faster than the swimmer who ended up with Silver.
His 200m breast PB would have him gotten him Bronze at the 2004 Olympics - 0.55 out of gold.
He was pretty good at every stroke. :)
OK, then I want to correct myself, he has excelled in all four strokes.
but the only stroke that really matters is the freestyle, lets be honest
Calling a guy with 49 WC/Olympic GOLD medals overrated. Solid troll there.
If people only considered freestyle to be the pure stroke, how would Phelps done if he just focused on freestyle? So, if only events in swimming is various lengths of freestyle, how would Phelps done?
We never know since that’s not the case so it’s a stupid argument.
phelpsisthegoat wrote:
coach wrote:
So who is the greatest American runner then?
not a hurdler that is for sure (hurdling being the track equivalent of butterfly stroke)
This statement regarding hurdling is beyond dumb. When making comparisons, try using things you know something about. You clearly know very little about hurdling.
phelpsisthegoat wrote:
same for Bolt, right? wrote:
Usain Bolt was clearly overrated, too. His only individual golds were in the 100 and 200. He never won: 400, 800, 1500, 5000, 10000, marathon, steeplechase, 110 hurdles, 400 hurdles, javelin, shot put, discus, hammer throw, pole vault, high jump, long jump, or triple jump.
Totally a one trick pony. Overrated.
bolt won 6 individual golds in the 100 and 200, which are the MOST competitive running distances in the world (nearly EVERY human has tried to see how fast they can run a short sprint). That's an incredible GOAT feat.
Phelps won 1 freestyle medal
If Bolt had won a ton of medals in hurdles and relays...but only ONE 100m meter gold...we would view him differently.
Wrong, anyone who won gold in both the open 100m and the 110H would be considered the GOAT no questions asked. Relays don't make a GOAT.
Stop using hurdles, it really doesn't apply.
phelpsisthegoat wrote:
shocked I tell you again wrote:
Total Cr@p! What are hurdles? What is the Steeple chase?? They are elements inserted into the racing that modify the approach to the racing. They literally slow you down?
"In running we see who is the fastest period." And that is EXACTLY what they do in swimming.
lets be honest
hurdles and steeplechase are for runners that couldnt cut in the pure running races.
Or maybe it's for the people who think the extra challenge is fun...
StrokeMyEgo wrote:
If someone with a knife was chasing you on land, you would likely run away if unarmed. You wouldn’t race walk and you wouldn’t run backwards.
If someone with a knife was chasing you in water, you would likely swim away if unarmed. You would use the freestyle stroke. You wouldn’t use butterfly, breaststroke, or backstroke.
You might use the dolphin kick, but the rules actually don't let you use it beyond 15m. So all swimming is limited in terms of technique , including the freestyle event.
CKidd wrote:
StrokeMyEgo wrote:
If someone with a knife was chasing you on land, you would likely run away if unarmed. You wouldn’t race walk and you wouldn’t run backwards.
If someone with a knife was chasing you in water, you would likely swim away if unarmed. You would use the freestyle stroke. You wouldn’t use butterfly, breaststroke, or backstroke.
You might use the dolphin kick, but the rules actually don't let you use it beyond 15m. So all swimming is limited in terms of technique , including the freestyle event.
Yeah, it's not the purest or fastest form so the current form of "freestyle" really can't even be counted when discussing who the GOAT is. Unfortunately is just a watered down, slower variation of swimming.
Most hurdlers can compete with other sprinters in the open 100 and 400.
Most sprinters can't compete with hurdlers over hurdles.
two out of four is not all wrote:
phelpsisthegoat wrote:
Considered the best swimmer of all time.
Freestyle form is the FASTEST method of swimming. If you excel in this discipline, you are the fastest i.e. "BEST" swimmer.
He only has....(checks notes)......1 freestyle individual gold.
Rest of his individual medals are the medley and butterfly (where its an arbitrarily slower method of swimming).
His relay medals are sort of a wash since the US team is totally stacked
Are we being lied to?
You have definitely made a good point.
I really was not aware that just one of his Olympic golds was in individual freestyle.
Sun Yang has won Olympic Golds in 200m, 400m and 1500m freestyle.
Sun Yang was banned not just once but twice for doping (from Wikipedia):
Sun was banned for 3 months after failing a drug test during the Chinese National Championships in 2014.[4] Sun later was banned again after being found guilty of doping violations in 2018 however has never been stripped of any of his world championship medals because of a lack of evidence that he had used drugs in 2018 and 2019.[5]
The 50m freestyle WR is around 20 seconds. I figure Usain Bolt could get to the other end of that pool in 8 seconds or less. People who jump into the water are choosing an "arbitrarily slower method" of getting to the other side of the pool. Therefore Usain Bolt is the GOAT Olympic swimmer.
Caleb dressel has 2 freestyle individual golds now.
That's more than Phelps.
Hes a better swimmer in my opinion now.