Was Michael Phelps overrated (srs)? Not even a good freestyle swimmer......

StrokeMyEgo wrote:

But this is an interesting thought in regards to swimming and the freestyle stroke. I’m running we see who is the fastest period. We don’t see who can run the fastest backwards or the fastest while doing something goofy with your arms and legs.

I think the OP’s argument that Phelps was not consistently the fastest at the fastest stroke has merit.

Yes! This is what I was thinking. We should have 100m backwards and 100m on all fours. Thats what swimming is like. Whats the point of having different forms of slower swimming to see who is fastest at this slower way? Maybe we should have running but you have to carry something heavy or running but you can only push off with 1 leg, the other leg must act as a peg leg etc...

I do not know which male swimmer to elevate over Phelps. O.P., you make good points though. There are more swimming relays in Olympics and W.C. than there are relays in T&F Olympics and W.C. How would posters feel if Silas Kiplagat were sitting on a dozen Olympic and W.C. gold medals from 4 x 800m and 4 x 1500m without every being a dominate runner?

same for Bolt, right? wrote:

Usain Bolt was clearly overrated, too. His only individual golds were in the 100 and 200. He never won: 400, 800, 1500, 5000, 10000, marathon, steeplechase, 110 hurdles, 400 hurdles, javelin, shot put, discus, hammer throw, pole vault, high jump, long jump, or triple jump.

Totally a one trick pony. Overrated.

bolt won 6 individual golds in the 100 and 200, which are the MOST competitive running distances in the world (nearly EVERY human has tried to see how fast they can run a short sprint). That's an incredible GOAT feat.

Phelps won 1 freestyle medal

If Bolt had won a ton of medals in hurdles and relays...but only ONE 100m meter gold...we would view him differently.

T&F utility man (200-3000)m wrote:

I do not know which male swimmer to elevate over Phelps. O.P., you make good points though. There are more swimming relays in Olympics and W.C. than there are relays in T&F Olympics and W.C. How would posters feel if Silas Kiplagat were sitting on a dozen Olympic and W.C. gold medals from 4 x 800m and 4 x 1500m without every being a dominate runner?

Ian Thorpe. 3 x Individual freestyle Gold medals. think that is the most in modern era. plus a ton of freestyle wc golds

phelpsisthegoat wrote:

same for Bolt, right? wrote:

Usain Bolt was clearly overrated, too. His only individual golds were in the 100 and 200. He never won: 400, 800, 1500, 5000, 10000, marathon, steeplechase, 110 hurdles, 400 hurdles, javelin, shot put, discus, hammer throw, pole vault, high jump, long jump, or triple jump.

Totally a one trick pony. Overrated.

bolt won 6 individual golds in the 100 and 200, which are the MOST competitive running distances in the world (nearly EVERY human has tried to see how fast they can run a short sprint). That's an incredible GOAT feat.

Phelps won 1 freestyle medal

If Bolt had won a ton of medals in hurdles and relays...but only ONE 100m meter gold...we would view him differently.

If he won 23 other gold medals and one 100m gold, yeah, we'd say he was the GOAT.

phelpsisthegoat wrote:

T&F utility man (200-3000)m wrote:

I do not know which male swimmer to elevate over Phelps. O.P., you make good points though. There are more swimming relays in Olympics and W.C. than there are relays in T&F Olympics and W.C. How would posters feel if Silas Kiplagat were sitting on a dozen Olympic and W.C. gold medals from 4 x 800m and 4 x 1500m without every being a dominate runner?

Ian Thorpe. 3 x Individual freestyle Gold medals. think that is the most in modern era. plus a ton of freestyle wc golds

Popov has 4 Olympic golds in free, I believe.

You have this whole thing wrong. You aren't the GOAT if you are pigeon-holed into the arbitrary swimming style that YOU claim is pure. The sport of swimming is defined across multiple disciplines, not JUST freestyle. Backstroke is a stroke. Butterfly is a stroke. Breaststroke is a stroke. He excelled in all. Oh, and... AND he got a gold in the freestyle as well. as far as the body of work he accomplished in the pool and his dominance over his career, YES he is the GOAT!!

Your example is somewhat like saying that since Bekele never won the 100 meter dash, which is the fastest and purest form of running, but instead opted for a form of running that was slower, is he really the GOAT? Ridiculous!!

MMH wrote:

phelpsisthegoat wrote:

Ian Thorpe. 3 x Individual freestyle Gold medals. think that is the most in modern era. plus a ton of freestyle wc golds

Popov has 4 Olympic golds in free, I believe.

Salnikov has 3 or 4. Would have ended up with more if not for the boycott. He was dominant.

StrokeMyEgo wrote:

But this is an interesting thought in regards to swimming and the freestyle stroke. In running we see who is the fastest period. We don’t see who can run the fastest backwards or the fastest while doing something goofy with your arms and legs.

I think the OP’s argument that Phelps was not consistently the fastest at the fastest stroke has merit.

Total Cr@p! What are hurdles? What is the Steeple chase?? They are elements inserted into the racing that modify the approach to the racing. They literally slow you down?

"In running we see who is the fastest period." And that is EXACTLY what they do in swimming.

Hurdles and steeplechase are obstacles. Purposefully swimming with a slower form is not the same. A better equivalent in swimming would be swimmers being required to dive to the bottom of the pool or something, having to go through or under some obstacle. It is a fair point that the other strokes are just slower ways of swimming and is not really that analogous to hurdles or steeple.

If the other strokes didn’t exist, do you think Phelps could have used some of his training time to hone his freestyle even further and been a better freestyler? Probably.

Also, freestyle isn’t even the fastest way to swim, they get disqualified for kicking underwater for too long and a big component of the race is how good you are at turning at the wall. Even a 50m without turns, its not really all swimming, the power you generate with your start probably plays a big role.

Yeah, swimmers medal counts are inflated because its “easy” to do a lot of events, but Phelps dominated two different Olympic Games. He’s pretty high on the list of all time Olympic greats. I’ll say only very slightly overrated.

Phelps pb's

100m free: 47.51 relay split [flying]

200m free: 1:42.96 [former WR]

400m free: 3:46.73, former NR

I'd say this means he's good at freestyle. He isn't a sprinter though

I think Ian Thorpe is considered the best 'freestyler' based on his breadth/reach/success [100m-800m]

He didnt have the limitation where he didnt have success in the 100m

Traditionally, the fastest 100m free is the best freestyler, fastest human

But Ian Thorpe was everything, including medaling in a WC and OG in the 100m [bronze tho]

but 200-800 [yes 800 not contested in OG] he was untouchable

Sort of like peak Ledecky in 400m - [n]

Luv2Run wrote:

phelpsisthegoat wrote:

Considered the best swimmer of all time.

Freestyle form is the FASTEST method of swimming. If you excel in this discipline, you are the fastest i.e. "BEST" swimmer.

He only has....(checks notes)......1 freestyle individual gold.

Rest of his individual medals are the medley and butterfly (where its an arbitrarily slower method of swimming).

His relay medals are sort of a wash since the US team is totally stacked

Are we being lied to?

This has to be in contention for one of the dumbest posts ever on letsrun.

Since LRC is the home of stupidity, that´s saying a lot.

shocked I tell you again wrote:

The sport of swimming is defined across multiple disciplines, not JUST freestyle. Backstroke is a stroke. Butterfly is a stroke. Breaststroke is a stroke. He excelled in all.

As far as I know, he just competed internationally in two of those four strokes. How could he have excelled in all four then?

shocked I tell you again wrote:

StrokeMyEgo wrote:

But this is an interesting thought in regards to swimming and the freestyle stroke. In running we see who is the fastest period. We don’t see who can run the fastest backwards or the fastest while doing something goofy with your arms and legs.

I think the OP’s argument that Phelps was not consistently the fastest at the fastest stroke has merit.

Total Cr@p! What are hurdles? What is the Steeple chase?? They are elements inserted into the racing that modify the approach to the racing. They literally slow you down?

"In running we see who is the fastest period." And that is EXACTLY what they do in swimming.

lets be honest

hurdles and steeplechase are for runners that couldnt cut in the pure running races.

*couldnt cut it

by winning multiple golds in WC/OG's in the 200IM/400IM including setting WRs I believe you demonstrate competency in all strokes, by definition.

two out of four is not all wrote:

shocked I tell you again wrote:

The sport of swimming is defined across multiple disciplines, not JUST freestyle. Backstroke is a stroke. Butterfly is a stroke. Breaststroke is a stroke. He excelled in all.

As far as I know, he just competed internationally in two of those four strokes. How could he have excelled in all four then?

Phelps has multiple medals and world records in the IM events, so there's that.