Can someone explain what “ Twisties” is in gymnastics and is there a similar occurrence in running?

Just got home from work and haven’t read everyone’s replies but I find this subject very interesting. There needs to be more studies done on this subject. Did small amount of research looking for articles on the subject of “ Twisties “ and there is not much out there.

The twisties is what the youngins call the hunger for aderall or Ritalin or greenies.

Apology accepted :)

Tastes Like Chicken wrote:

FM117 wrote:

I don't have a clue about gymnastics but have a lot of hours flying aerobatics. Pilots will sometimes randomly get what's called the "wobblies". I flew aerobatics for close to 4 years and never had an issue, all of a sudden

after a fairly mild practice session I was motion sick and stumbling. Real bad feeling, happened every time I practiced, came on very quick...

All that said I can see why she might quit.

Thank you for posting this. It's hard not to think "Controlled-Flight-Into-Terrain" when you hear about gymnasts losing their sense of where they are during a routine.

Just curious: How did your fellow pilots react? Did any of them tell you it was "all in your head"? Call you a quitter? Tell you just "push through"?

No, because it was/is a fairly common thing and I wasn't good enough that anybody really

cared.

One of the longest threads on letsrun is the loss of coordination in one leg thread. That may be the closest relative to the "twisties" in running.

The neuromuscular connections in sports are often a lot more tenuous than we understand. The "twisties" are not well understood, but I have heard that it is really a result of your natural reflexes with your training. When you are thrown in the air, your natural reflexes will make you try to prepare for a safe landing by limiting flipping, turning etc. Gymnasts spend all their time training to do the exact opposite. A breakdown in the neuromuscular connection can put the innate reflexes at odds with training and cause the twisties.

Thank you that makes sense.

FM117 wrote:

Tastes Like Chicken wrote:

Thank you for posting this. It's hard not to think "Controlled-Flight-Into-Terrain" when you hear about gymnasts losing their sense of where they are during a routine.

Just curious: How did your fellow pilots react? Did any of them tell you it was "all in your head"? Call you a quitter? Tell you just "push through"?

No, because it was/is a fairly common thing and I wasn't good enough that anybody really

cared.

The wobblies is a great comparison.. They happened to "Cougar" in Top Gun, giving Maverick and Goose their shot. Given this movie is an 80s classic and even in that movie the Commander didn't call Cougar a quitter, but accepted it as a known issue, maybe we could catch up here lol.

Things like the wobblies, and twisted happened to performers who are moving through various planes and it can have a vestibular component as a few people have brought up.

The concept/argument that "because a thing did not happen before means it is either untrue, fake, or cannot happen" later is one of the absolutely dumbest arguments happening in this thread.

Especially when it's related to something like a vestibular issue.

In fact, the very fact that something like this type of issue can come on without warning or *seeming* control is exactly the the thing that makes it dangerous and terrifying to the performer.

Runners move through a single plane, making anything similar to this happening rare, so I get it. It's probably hard to imagine or have empathy for. But because of that, maybe don't criticize how it's handled either bc it makes people sound like a know nothing idiots.

This comparison or analogy isn't perfect (none are), but there are some definite similarities and some aspects in common.

JFK, Jr., his wife, and her sister were killed in the crash of a private plane he was piloting. He was a fully licensed and qualified pilot, but relatively short on experience and flying hours. Due to time constraints to get to a wedding, he flew at night in bad weather that included heavy fog. The follow up investigation determined that, with literally no visibility, he became completely disoriented and lost all awareness of direction. He couldn't tell up from down, had no sense of pitch or level, and no idea where the ground was. He literally flew the plane straight into the ocean.

Well, if you design a sport where "twisties" will stop you from being the best, and you get "twisties" and drop out, then I guess you're not the best.

The discussion should end there. There is no question of how good someone woulda coulda shoulda been if they didn't have the twisties!

va coach wrote:

This comparison or analogy isn't perfect (none are), but there are some definite similarities and some aspects in common.

JFK, Jr., his wife, and her sister were killed in the crash of a private plane he was piloting. He was a fully licensed and qualified pilot, but relatively short on experience and flying hours. Due to time constraints to get to a wedding, he flew at night in bad weather that included heavy fog. The follow up investigation determined that, with literally no visibility, he became completely disoriented and lost all awareness of direction. He couldn't tell up from down, had no sense of pitch or level, and no idea where the ground was. He literally flew the plane straight into the ocean.

Are you sure about JFK Jr. and fully licensed and fully qualified? I thought JFK Jr. was only certified to fly visually. I am fairly sure JFK Jr. was not qualified to fly by instruments. They got delayed for one reason or another and it got darker. Was JFK Jr. 100% sober at the time? I know some highly experience military vets who can fly with a few drinks under their belt. Basically JFK Jr. never was a good pilot.

Yes, they failed big time. That's why there should be a national sterilization policy. We need to start increasing the global IQ level.

If Biles had continued to compete the team would not have won a silver medal, they wouldnt have medaled at all. She was a liability in her condition - not to mention her own safety was at risk - that's why she dropped.

I wonder if Biles would have still gotten the twisties if she was broke and without a sponsor.

I thought it meant you “twist one up” then get flagged by the bad man that collects urine.

outabounds wrote:

Curious if someone who is knowledgeable can explain and if this seemingly neurological disorder occurs in running?

We call it choking. That's the common terminology in every other sport.

So can we all agree that "the twisties" is a sports psychology issue and not a mental health one? Because that's what is troubling me with this entire thing - at least for me, mental health is something far bigger and more important that ultimately what amounts to a sports psych issue.

I completely understand and appreciate the "twisty" issue after reading up on it. We have seen what happens with pitchers, golfers, cricketers etc when these issues happen and for sure the consequences are not as serious as what could happen to a gymnast. I do wonder, and we will never know this, if Biles had actually got out there and begun to compete, if the hours and years of excellence in her chosen sport would have simply taken over and she would have been fine. Like I understand how the "twisties" could really be an issue for a far less accomplished gymnast - I really wonder if that would have happened to Biles, or rather her limbic brain just took over and she would have been more than okay.

Either way it's her decision and I couldn't give two f-cks what she chooses to do. Sucks a little for the team and for someone who had an Olympic dream too but was left at home at the expense of Biles and this unfortunate sports psychology issue that came up on her

She went out there and things were not OK. Seems like you would be have to be pretty stupid to try again when the risk is dying...

As people have pointed out this happens in coordination sports. Golfers get the yipps and cant putt. Catchers cant through back to the pitchers, and so on. Most of the time things are minor and you just get comments like the person is fighting themselves. You rarely get the extremes of seeing pros look like 7 year olds.

The part that is weird is calling it mental health. This is more of a neurologic condition and not what most people think of as mental health. I am not sure sport psych is quite right either but it isnt like we have a great understanding of coordination. Maybe she cracked inder the pressure but plenty of people in nonPressure sports get the yips also.

outabounds wrote:

Curious if someone who is knowledgeable can explain and if this seemingly neurological disorder occurs in running?

prob not close to the same thing but mentally it prob is.

go blow up one of your hammys really bad, not like some strain, no im talking about full blown lock up while sprinting, feel the sharp tear as the leg is trying to cycle back up, then it locks up under your a$$ and stays there.....the next thing that happens is you eat sh*t hard!

not only does that hammy take 4-6 months to recovery you also ate some serious sh*t on the track, with massive road rash, maybe a twisted ankle on the other foot, or broken wrist or collar bone from impacting the ground and doing a number of painful and awkward summersaults.

you heal up, but then anytime doing anything with speed, a warm up before your race, doing a few strides out of the blocks and you feel that stinging pain....your mind is already done. pretty sure thats what happened to obea moore. anyone who has ever blown out their hammy bad, knows that sharp millisecond stab in the hammy and the doubt sets in

"oh f*ck i dont want to blow my hammy again"

and its not just the pain and fear of it happening while sprinting at top speed, its that doubt and anguish of all that training and sacrifice will all be for nothing if it blows