C type stuff went beyond fat shaming! At least Safe Sport believed that it did . I believe Mary asked fir help with severe emotional duress and was ignored . Watch her video on YouTube about it
If you believe what she is saying , Alberto should be toast .
rojo wrote:
But can you really ban someone without publishing a reason? Isn't that a kangaroo court.
Of course you can. Many courts proceed that way.
rojo wrote:
Does SafeSport even tell Salazar why he's banned?
Of course they do. Didn't you read the SafeSport Code?
rojo wrote:
We need a fair process. Do we know if we have one?
Yes. Didn't you read the SafeSport Code before complaining about it?
Specifically XI. RESOLUTION PROCEDURES, and therein
J. Procedural Rights of Respondents (here: Salazar).
J. Procedural Rights of Respondents
Federal law provides Respondents with certain procedural rights. 36 USC § 220541(a)(1)(H). For any action taken against a Respondent, including an investigation, the imposition of sanctions, or any other disciplinary action, the Center must provide procedural due process to the Respondent, which includes:
1. The provision of written notice of allegations against the Respondent;
2. The right to be represented by counsel or other advisor;
3. An opportunity to be heard during the investigation;
4. A reasoned decision from the Center if a violation is found;
5. The ability to challenge through arbitration any temporary measures or sanctions imposed by the Center.
Was already discussed here of course, linked by Nekked Baker:
https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=10738395Why do you fight for this banned abuser without looking into the facts?
2021: why was your coach banned?
**you: he Annoyed me.
We are doomed.
It sounds like they use some process. However, the authorities do not seem like judges appointed through a rigorous election process and just whoever SS decided to put in charge. I know Congress approved them, so I suppose we ought to accept a new judiciary thrown together behind everyone's back.
Simultaneous to SS issuing a decision the complete SS investigative report complete with all interviews, corroborating information and the like is sent to the claimant(s) and respondent.
If you want to know why Salazar was sanctioned as he was then ask him to share that report or figure out who made the claims against Salazar and ask them to share the report. All the nitty gritty will be in that report.
Too long to read all of that nonsense. Maybe it's fair, maybe it isn't. What it is though. Avoidable.. and that's on Al.
people have to learn to either grow a set of balls or a thicker skin.
People want to be the best but only under their rules. They should just coach themselves.
If there is physical or sexual abuse- that's one thing.,
but being ridiculed or "bullying" is all what getting to be the best is all about. A coach that worries constantly about am i hurting little johnny or joanns feeling is going to be a shi tty coach.
I think every coach I had including HS FB and college track 'bullied'me. Lots of brutal workout sessions, lots of cussing. Running in 100+ heat.
I would have loved to run for Salazar. If your coach doesn't fit your mental outlook then find another one that does. Don't put up with it and then complain later. Leave immediately and find someone else, life is too short. Some athletes need a hug and a pat on the back (mostly girls?) rather than what i needed- a kick in the butt.
You guys think Rudy's coach's abused him? Yeah pretty much. Did he complain or quit or file a lawsuit?
If someone is banned it should be required at the very least to release the reasons. Keeping it all secret is a horrible process.
Salazar can release the investigative report which would show the reasons for his sanction.
this feels like someone in the mob who has murdered a lot of people who gets convicted of tax evasion.
Were Cain and Goucher even being coached by Salazar in 2017, when SafeSport and its code came into existence?
Seems to me they had left NOP before that, long before in Goucher's case.
It's blatantly unjust to find someone in violation of a code that didn't even exist at the time of the alleged violations.
pay me wrote:
people have to learn to either grow a set of balls or a thicker skin.
People want to be the best but only under their rules. They should just coach themselves.
If there is physical or sexual abuse- that's one thing.,
but being ridiculed or "bullying" is all what getting to be the best is all about. A coach that worries constantly about am i hurting little johnny or joanns feeling is going to be a shi tty coach.
Imagine if when you came into work everyday your boss commented on you looking fat. How long do you think you would put up with it?
You do not need to bully athletes to get the best performance out of them. In fact, I would argue the opposite will get the best out of them. There is a paper by Gillian Cook looking at the behaviors of top swim coaches where those who had high levels of trust had athletes who performed better.
https://library.olympics.com/Default/doc/SYRACUSE/472362/olympic-coaching-excellence-a-quantitative-study-of-psychological-aspects-of-olympic-swimming-coacheguessing games wrote:
If someone is banned it should be required at the very least to release the reasons. Keeping it all secret is a horrible process.
The problem with releasing it is that the victims/subjects of the abuse would then lose their confidentiality. Salazar can release it. But based on what has been reported already I doubt the report would be any better. Of course a few of you think that emotionally abusing athletes is the way to get the best performance when the evidence is overwhelmingly the other direction.
An alternate view from someone who preceded Mary Cain in the same situation (except she lived with the Salazars) and who had the same results on the track. (written in 2013)
https://www.runnersworld.com/races-places/a20841935/what-its-like-to-be-coached-by-alberto-salazar/
This "power discrepancy" stuff is so incredibly stupid. The relationship between an athlete and their coach is entirely voluntary. If you think their coaching style is "bullying" then find a new one.
Just observing that someone might theoretically have the ability to use their influence to punish someone doesn't change that. Did Cain ever accuse Salazar of threatening to have Nike cut her contract? Has anyone? I haven't seen it if they did. We've entirely skipped past the part where you actually have to accuse someone of abusing their power. Just having power is now prima facie abuse.
You might as well say she had no choice because Salazar was bigger than her so he could have beat her to a pulp if she quit. It would be just as true and just as stupid.
Most training labeled safe sport does cover the allegations made against Salazar. The sort of abuse many athletes, and particularly women and girls, have frequently been subject to in sport has always been wrong (even though it was accepted) anyone who bothers keeping up with sport has known for years that it's something that could cost a coach their job. If Salazar didn't know that, the problem is his.
There is no statute of limitations on reporting.
Many of the parts of the SafeSport code were also included in the USOC coaching code of ethics. IIRC, to receive USOC funding Salazar would have had to sign that.
Mary's email asking to return should be included in his defense. Kara? She is obsessed with the man and if tomorrow someone said they saw him murder someone she would jump in and say she did too. All I know is that all his runners did their best running under him and, unlike Schumacher, nobody tested positive for peds. He needs to go on offense and start suing some of these folks. P.S. when an athlete fails a drug test for a ped the coach (Schumacher and Flanagan) need to be banned too.
As I read these comments, I can't help but have a question (rhetorical?) pop into my head: Is the measure of what "bullying" is different for boys/men than it is for girls/women? Do we (or SafeSport) measure that using a different scale for each gender?
It seems to me that we definitely do. Should we? Or is it not gender-specific what motivates one person to run better and another to feel shame/humiliation?
As has been suggested on this thread, what motivates one person can trash the self-image of another. As a coach, I may judge wrongly what it takes to get an athlete to perform their best, especially if it has worked in the past to make someone succeed, then all of a sudden this current person quits the team or wants me fired. Maybe Salazar's style worked well previously, but then failed when it was the wrong approach for the wrong person.