Alberto Salazar banned for life - aka "permanently ineligible" - by SafeSport

If you want drug cheats out so badly, then where is your vitriol toward Jerry Schumacher?

SS operates on the basis of "preponderance of evidence" not on the criminal standard of "proving guilt beyond a reasonable doubt."

That's what Rojo essentially said in another thread and someone accused him of defending Salazar but I guess Safe Sport was created by Congress and is set up this way where reports aren't made public.

But if we're just being told to trust the process and there is no way to verify anything that is the only option we're left with. Could there be a more transparent way to do this even with allegations of abuse, etc, protecting the victim?

Look he very well should be banned but we can't tell . In the flow chart below I don't even see a point where the accused defends themselves. This is a different process than a criminal trial or even like a sexual assault committee on a campus. This is solely for Olympic sports and Olympic participation right?. Alberto can be banned, but it just means he can't be an official coach. Galen or whoever could keep working with him on their own from what I understand. Looks like a high schooler could work with him. A bit crazy if you ask me.

Maybe because of the limited teeth of the ban it is more focused on erring on the side of caution than being transparent etc.

Could I hire Alberto and wear vaporflys on the track if I'm just a hobbyjogger?

. Participation 1. Parties

The parties to an investigation and arbitration are the Center and the Respondent. During the investigation, the Claimant and Respondent will have an opportunity to submit information and relevant evidence, to identify witnesses who may have relevant information, and to submit questions that they believe should be directed by the investigatorto each other or to any witness.

Neither the Claimant nor Respondent are requiredto participate in the investigation nor any form of resolution under these procedures. However, full cooperation and participation in the resolution process is important to ensure that all relevant information and evidence are presented so the Center can determine whether a Code violation occurred. If a Claimant or Respondent declines to cooperate or participate in an investigation, the Center will make its decision based on the available evidence; alternatively, the Center may, in its discretion, choose not to proceed.

a. Where a Claimant declines or is otherwise unable to participate in an investigation or hearing, the Center’s ability to resolve the allegations may be limited. In such cases, the Center may pursue the report if it is possible to do so without the Claimant’s participation in the investigation or resolution (e.g., where there is other relevant evidence of the Prohibited Conduct, such as

recordings, corroborating reports from other witnesses, or physical evidence). Even withsuch evidence, however, the Center may only be able to respond to the report in limited and general ways.

b. If during the investigative process (i.e., prior to the Decision being issued), information or evidence that is available to the Respondent, including testimonial evidence, is not provided to the investigator, such information or evidence will not be considered in determining whether a violation of the Code occurred.

If such information or evidence is provided after a Decision has been issued, absent good cause, it will be afforded less weight during any subsequent Arbitration. The Center may reopen the investigation to determine the evidentiary value of, or gather additional evidence related to, such evidence. The arbitration-related costs associated with any delay will be borne by the Respondent.

I don’t know much about this, nor do I claim to. I’m just raising some points that I don’t think have been mentioned. Feel free to fact check me on these:

- this thread seems to be bringing up Cain’s accusations as well as Kara’s. I’m not saying these are true or not, but isn’t it possible that this ruling was decided based on other anonymous accusations that were verified somehow which we don’t know about? Also, could any of these accusations possibly be historical (ie something he did when he wasn’t even a coach yet?)

- I’m assuming he was banned just for the misconduct stuff and not for the doping stuff: Maybe he didn’t get perm banned for doping because the doping stuff is “very very probable” , but they couldn’t find any solid proof of it. If that’s the case, then doesn’t that imply that they’ve somehow found solid proof of sexual misconduct?

- from the little I’ve read about Alberto’s life, he’s INTENSE -ie 200 mile weeks, permanently damaging his body to win the Boston marathon. In the Nike founders autobiography he says that the first thing Alberto said after his heart attack was “is Galen okay?”. I’m not saying he’s a bad guy at all, but I am saying that he seems like someone that takes things way too far. There’s many different ways to tell an athlete to lose weight (which is a fair thing to do): I very much doubt he took the reasonable approach and consulted with a medical professional, but instead he took a “by all means necessary” approach which was encouraging an eating disorder (this is pure speculation based on his character though).

- In my opinion, it’s Nike’s fault for having him on the NOP without keeping tabs on him. He’s known to be intense, and sleazy (if some of the posts on this board are to be believed). They didn’t have any actual doctors (if the NYT article is true). Alberto is by far not the only one at fault here but he seems to be taking all the blame. His character and reputation do make him a very easy scapegoat.

what exactly did he do? I see lots of opinions but would like to know the specifics.

What if Salazar just refuses to be banned and starts coaching athletes again? Without him showing up at the meets, all they can really do is start banning his athletes. What if it's Rupp and Centrowitz, would USATF really want track any deader than it is now?

I know of a D1 college coach who made a female athlete get on a scale in front of locker room full of teammates every week because the athlete was reported to have eaten a candy bar. Am I reading the article correct that according to SafeSport, this college coach should also be banned?

umstead wrote:

The scrutiny of this guy is unprecedented, yet his supporters still don't believe a word of it.

Smoke=fire.

What is the sexual misconduct? Commenting on someone's size of butt?

Agreed. You can't make this stuff up.

Alberto is a unique individual and is VERY driven. He was a fierce competitor, not only against his opponents but against himself. He relentlessly pushed himself in training and racing. Many on this message board don't and won't understand. Consequently, that obsession to win skewed his perception of coaching athletes. If you're not from the same mindset you're going to have issues. I think it was especially difficult for the women, and his approach although abrasive and some say offensive was never a personal one. It came from a strong "Self- Centered" belief that winning was the priority and sugar coating was not an option. Alberto was always on the cutting edge of training and racing with regard to training aids, supplements, and performance enhancers (not illegal). I don't believe he tried to cheat or take shortcuts, he respected the sport too much and understood the consequences. However, he did believe in taking every conceivable advantage possible to achieve results, and unfortunately he "danced too close to the fire" and got burned. He was a master of exploiting the so-called "Gray Area", and realized that in order to be successful in this sport you had to take every advantage when possible.

The damage is done, and so is Alberto.

There is another thread on this matter (If I'd known there were two I would have merged them initially but don't want to do it now as it would confuse people). In it, I asked about due process and a poster had all of the answers I was looking for.

Here is my post and their reply.

and then "casual observer" responded with the following.

Of course you can. Many courts proceed that way.

Of course they do. Didn't you read the SafeSport Code?

Yes. Didn't you read the SafeSport Code before complaining about it?

Specifically XI. RESOLUTION PROCEDURES, and therein

J. Procedural Rights of Respondents (here: Salazar).

Was already discussed here of course, linked by Nekked Baker:

We can't tell, but Salazar and his lawyers and the Center and the Investigator can. And of course Salazar can go to arbitration.

Here you go (the accused is the Respondent):

1) "Preliminary information gathering and initial contact with involved parties. Temporary measures may also be imposed as necessary, and if so, Respondent may request an interim measures hearing at any time if it affects the opportunity to participate in sport."

2) "If a sanction is assigned, the Respondent may request arbitration."

3) "Respondent and the Center present evidence to an independent arbitrator, who issues a final and binding decision."

This all looks a very normal process, which is kept confidential as it concerns sexual misconduct. No need to worry about the rights of the abuser.

More details are in the code, including:

Yes rojo. My concerns about your post weren't your questions, but your conclusions from what you implied would be the answers, such as "kangaroo court" and:

rojo wrote:

It's almost like , "We'll ban you and hope you don't fight it and then it doesn't get aired publicly." It kind of reminds me of what the Catholic church used to do except the only difference is the punishment is very stiff, whereas back then it wasn't.

bsbsbs wrote:

[quote]#freesalazar wrote:

Pretty sure Kara Goucher has claimed he made advances on her when drunk

Advances! Wow. Bet no one else on the board did that!

The me-too puritans ride again. Masculinity ruled illegal. Testosterone banned as a vicious PED. There's going to be a mass run toward the Caitlin copout.

Let me share my personal story or meeting Alberto Salazar....

I was a young kid, 16 years old, and I wasn't super, but I had managed to win the Region XIII Junior Olympic 5000 meters for my age group and got 2nd in the 2000 meter Steeple Chase. Let me emphasize, I wasnt great but I did my best. Running was my outlet, my dad was a criminal in prison and my mom was a perennial drug addict. I had good teachers and coaches who tried to encourage me along the way.

After nationals where again I wasnt super, I joined a relay squad of bunch of old doctors from my hometown who did the Rainier to Pacific Relay.

I was pretty sick from something I ate and slept alot inbetween my running slots... but I will never forget getting woken by one of the Doctors on our team who said he wanted me to meet someone. I was puzzled but then excited that it was Alberto Salazar standing outside this white van with other runners, professional, and I was speechless.

The Doctor explained I was a junior olympic champion for the Northwest... and I knew I wasnt super so I tried to underplay it, but then Alberto asked what school I wanted to go to, I answered that if I was faster Oregon, knowing that was impossible.

He was funny at first, he said Bill (Coach Dellinger) wouldnt like runners running road races. But then he got wierd... he asked what I had done and I explained and then he said "Ive never heard of you so you arent that good".

The doctor just looked stunned as one of Salazars runners, who was a prominant marathoner, refused to even give me an autograph.

I was a kid and I literally stopped running for a year because of that, as I already had low self esteem at the time due to my family situation.

Point is, he is a dick then and is proven to be one now. Bad character is a life trait. He has bad character.

LetsRupp wrote:

I know of a D1 college coach who made a female athlete get on a scale in front of locker room full of teammates every week because the athlete was reported to have eaten a candy bar. Am I reading the article correct that according to SafeSport, this college coach should also be banned?

In Japan running coaches do this all the time surveying the weight of their athletes and it’s a good thing in Japanese culture because if the runners gain a few grams then they go on a diet to lose those few grams and then the athlete knows that they will be in better shape to run well. Nothing wrong with that. Salazar has been very greatly victimized because of different cultural norms among other things.

Guys what I really want to know is if Salazar has an online coaching plan that I can buy?

You know for runners over 50?

Maybe even a fantasy running camp? He can call us wimps, withhold our meals until we finish the workouts, etc.. Promise I won't complain about him calling me fat or lazy, or that I need to lose 40lbs. I think we all could use some tough love, I know I could. Pretty sure my mom won't object either.

Oh, Also if he recommends testosterone or HGH I'll call my local T Center or book an appointment with my Dr. At my age 10x my current level is probs still below the legal limit of a female sprinter. (I'm male)

Yes. Entirely possible and mostly likely the case that other women came forward against Salazar and their claims were investigated and corroborated.

Doping issues are still outstanding with USADA and WADA. This had nothing to do with that. Salazar was temporarily suspended by SS in January 2020. This decision makes that temporary suspension permanent.

Salazar is responsible for his behavior. He is not being scapegoated.

Anything Nike at this point is suspect. Al Sal is just a symptom of that whole organization.