CDC: Myocarditis is 27 to 219 times more common in males Cole Hocker's age post-vaccination than expected

The Unkle wrote:

[quote]its only 5k wrote:

[quote]rojo wrote:

https://www.letsrun.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/myodcarditis.png

I caught Covid and had Myocarditis following it that stopped me running for 6 weeks and it cleared up in a similar time as the virus l, following the vaccine I had similar symptoms and it cleared up after two weeks, of the vaccine.

Why would you get the vax after already having and recovering from Covid?

This^^

Hocker has dominion over his body. Testing at the Olympics is rampant; if he catches it between rounds it will likely be caught. No guarantee that he won't have a poor reaction. Sure, hindsight he may have been better off getting vaxxed earlier in the year when he had the option to take 1-2 days off in his training, given the possibility of a poor reaction to the vaccine, or the (low) potential for myocarditis, but now he is about to take on some of the best athletes in the world in representation of his home country on one of the biggest stages in the world, and all the feeble LR plebs can think about is "uNvAcCinAtED sWinE".

I want to see the data, but the CDC doesn't give us the data. The data we get is a joke. VAERS is a joke. Doctors are supposed to report all events in certain categories for 28 days, but deaths have no time limits. The latter requirement is NOT being followed and I can prove it.

In the 80+ population, 75% of the 12.5 million seniors have been vaccinated... or about 9.5 million seniors. The annual death rate of the 80+ cohort is 5%... about 475,000/year. There are lots of ways do the math from here on out, but most work out to about 40,000 normal deaths so far this year in the age 80+ cohort in the month after vaccination. Note: According to the CDC guidelines shown online, these deaths are REQUIRED to be reported and then a determination will be made if they are COVID-related. Instead, they are not being reported at all.

A similar situation exists in the 70-79 cohort. Annual mortality is lower ( >2%), but the population is much bigger. Doing the math, it's another 20k-40k deaths that are not being reported.

I understand why adverse events aren't being reported. I can even understand the rationalization for not alarming the masses. I just want to see the real data before I make a decision. It's obvious that we aren't seeing it.

There is even a blatant disingenuous statement on the CDC website. Give me a moment and I'll post it.

fisky wrote:

There is even a blatant disingenuous statement on the CDC website. Give me a moment and I'll post it.

Here it is. Link follows. My peeve is: Don't lie. Don't sugarcoat. Just give me the data and let me decide. Here, we're being deliberately misled.

"mRNA vaccines have been held to the same rigorous safety and effectiveness standards [332 KB, 24 pages]external icon as all other types of vaccines in the United States."

This is simply not correct. No other vaccine has ever been given EUA, according to what I've read. If I'm wrong, please post a link.

MidFootStriker wrote:

The overwhelming evidence shows that you are thousands of times safer by getting the vaccine then by not getting the vaccine

That's correct for most average age olds. That's why I wrote an aritcle in May saying the Olympics should go on. I said have the games but Japan please vadccinate your elderly and workeres before the games. I'm very much pro vaccine.

MidFootStriker wrote:

Cole Hocker probably has a 1 in a 500 chance of getting the virus and having a serious reaction that impacts his Health significantly. He probably has a 1 in 500,000 chance of the same thing happening from the vaccine. The odds are overwhelming that he's better off getting the vaccine

Just like people are better off wearing seat belts, eating food, not smoking, and following what the basic evidence about reality tells us

This is where you are wrong. Cole Hocker isn't your average American. He's one of the fittest Americans and he 's 20 years old. Plus Hocker ALREADY had Covid.

If you think he has a 1 in 500 chance of getting a serious reaction that impacts his health significantly at age 20 after already having had Covid, then you don't know what you are talking about.

At best, it's debatable that he should have gotten it. Maybe we eventually learn once the data is analyzed that it's better for him to be vaxxed. But if I'm an aspiring pro distance runner who just kicked Covid on my own at age 20 with no ramificaitons, I'm sorry, I'm not taking a vaccine that hasn't gone through the normal regulatory process and is only on an emergency use authorization. If it was so obvious that someone his age should be getting it adn there were no risks associated with it, then Germany and the UK would be giving it to people under 20. If there were no risks, then my 3 year old would also be eligible.

All drugs have side effects. Period. The question is how big. If I'm Hocker, I'm probably not risking it. But I dint' even want to get into that in my article. All I said is save your outrage. The reality is the world's elderly - the black and brown of Kenya and Indonesisa - need it much more.

2600 bro wrote:

Man Overboard wrote:

When myocarditis is caused by Covid it's the end of the world. The pre-eminent "long covid" condition afflicting our nation's young.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01456-3

When caused by vaccination...suddenly no big deal.

Same condition.

Myocarditis is often sub-clinical and hard to diagnose without imaging. It's possible it still carries a risk despite the "sub-clinical" label.

A study of athletes showed that 0.3% had mycarditis symptoms and 2.3% had it detectable via MRI.

Compare that to the risk of myocarditis in 18-24 y.o.s from the vaccine: ~50/1,000,000 = 0.005% or roughly 60X more common than the clinical incidence post infection and ~500X more common than the subclinical incidence.

Do you see the difference now?

Not the right comparison for this case. The relevant stat is:

Risk of myocarditis with second infection * risk of second COVID infection (low) vs, risk of myocarditis of a vaccine in a patient who already had COVID * 1. The immune system is likely more aggressively in a priorly infected patient when he gets the vaccine.

You can’t honestly pedal stats out on a specific case when those stats obviously are irrelevant and the useful ones aren’t as well known.

Wow, I haven't browsed this site in over a year. First thing I see when I come back here is this thread.

I see the brand is alive and well.

I’m mostly agreement with you about what Hocker should do, Rojo. But to be fair, I don’t think people who in the US that are taking the vaccine are robbing someone on the other side of the planet of an opportunity to get vaxxed.

The countries in question have a limited supply not because Pfizer, etc. can’t make enough (that was the case months ago, but not now), but rather that the governments are too poor (and big pharma too greedy) or because of their governments incompetence or hesitance to get the vaccine rolled out.

suspicion in the ignition wrote:

I’m mostly agreement with you about what Hocker should do, Rojo. But to be fair, I don’t think people who in the US that are taking the vaccine are robbing someone on the other side of the planet of an opportunity to get vaxxed.

The countries in question have a limited supply not because Pfizer, etc. can’t make enough (that was the case months ago, but not now), but rather that the governments are too poor (and big pharma too greedy) or because of their governments incompetence or hesitance to get the vaccine rolled out.

Rojo are you listening?

rojo wrote:

iowakidscanrun wrote:

This is so disappointing and ignorant. I think I’ll be taking a break from letsrun

What's disappointing is your response?

How is me linking to an article in a respected Science magazine ignorant?

You clearly just don't like seeing things that question your world-view.

You're right rojo. We should not vaccinate children and let's all just live with covid forever. Ok carry on.

rojo wrote:

iowakidscanrun wrote:

This is so disappointing and ignorant. I think I’ll be taking a break from letsrun

What's disappointing is your response?

How is me linking to an article in a respected Science magazine ignorant?

You clearly just don't like seeing things that question your world-view.

Let me help you out since you still dont get it. Every time you "innocently" introduce constant doubt about the vaccine, its damaging. At this point, every person who dies from this disease can thank people like you and the anti vaxers. We have more than enough vaccine to eradicate nearly all cases and virtually every death in preventable now...by all of us! You are whats called "part of the problem". Some countries have an excuse, we do not.

bigmig19 wrote:

rojo wrote:

What's disappointing is your response?

How is me linking to an article in a respected Science magazine ignorant?

You clearly just don't like seeing things that question your world-view.

Let me help you out since you still dont get it. Every time you "innocently" introduce constant doubt about the vaccine, its damaging. At this point, every person who dies from this disease can thank people like you and the anti vaxers. We have more than enough vaccine to eradicate nearly all cases and virtually every death in preventable now...by all of us! You are whats called "part of the problem". Some countries have an excuse, we do not.

Yup!

Too bad Rojo doesn’t care

iowakidscanrun wrote:

This is so disappointing and ignorant. I think I’ll be taking a break from letsrun

imagine being so offended by the FACTS about vaccines having potentially SERIOUS side effects that you throw a temper tantrum and rage-quit. You want to forbid us from even having a discussion about scientific facts. You won't be missed here, we'll be better off without you.

The CDC doesn't accept antibody statistics as evidence of protection against COVID... just FYI

iowakidscanrun wrote:

This is so disappointing and ignorant. I think I’ll be taking a break from letsrun

That we cannot have an honest discussion about the vaccine is why there is so much hesitancy. A lot of people want to pretend there is 0 risk and you are a bad person for even discussing it. We have some bad history surrounding vaccines as recently as this century with anthrax vaccines for soldiers. If we had an honest discussion I think a lot more people who are on the fence would decide the risk of the vaccine is much less than the risk of Covid and would get vaccinated. For kids and younger adults this discussion definately makes sense.

BTW in Cole Hocker's case if we are following the science there is no way he should get the vaccine unless a new variant appears that the current natural immunity doesn't handle but a vaccine will. There is no evidence natural immunity, which he has from having Covid, not being just as adequate as the vaccine. There is no reason to expose yourself to the risk of unknown consequences of the vaccine, regardless of how unlikely they are, when you already have immunity.

Also a note for athletes one of the top cyclists, Fulsang, got the vaccine 3 weeks before Le Tour. He never recovered and bombed in the tour. So there is some risk to athletes of a negative reaction that impacts training or performance leading up to an event. Once again if Cole had never had Covid the vaccine risk in my mind would be less than the risk of Covid from a health and performance standpont. But since he had Covid this is a no brainer.

The Unkle wrote:

[quote]its only 5k wrote:

[quote]rojo wrote:

https://www.letsrun.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/myodcarditis.png

I caught Covid and had Myocarditis following it that stopped me running for 6 weeks and it cleared up in a similar time as the virus l, following the vaccine I had similar symptoms and it cleared up after two weeks, of the vaccine.

Why would you get the vax after already having and recovering from Covid?

Why wouldn’t you, my body responded to one of many hundreds billion difference variants of the Covid, probably the alpha variant as I live in the UK, but anything to top up my immune system to make sure it recognises it in future and send the necessary antibodies to kill it to stop me from suffering. Exactly the same rest I get the flu vaccine year, it’s just to help the body fight the virus, it’s not a cure and the reason I will be getting the next Covid boost shot in autumn/winter

Wait you have an Econ degree from an Ivy? You’d think you would do better than that high school level analysis you did of super spikes a few months ago. Provided your elite education and all.

Perhaps your folks really did get you through college.

bigmig19 wrote:

At this point, every person who dies from this disease can thank people like you and the anti vaxers.

Dear sir, you should be ashamed of yourself.

YOU and your ilk are responsible for many more deaths.

This is from March. And from South Asia alone.

Suddenly, for YOU and your ilk, only covid deaths matter.

The rest is what? Collateral damage.

YOU and your ilk are responsible for this!

At this point, every person who dies thanks to the measures YOU and your ilk encourage(d) can thank YOU and people like YOU.

Rojo will ignore this and other strong responses because he doesn’t have an adequate comeback.

Ignores everything he doesn’t like.

Emergency room doctor here, one who has taken care of a lot of people with myocarditis. The vaccine is producing myocarditis in 1 per 20,000 people vaccinated. The disease is producing myocarditis in 60% of the people getting the disease. No that is not a misprint, here is the reference from the primary literature.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32730619/

I believe that we will ultimately identify symptomatic myocarditis in 1 - 2 % of the people infected with the virus. The rate will be much, much lower, but still non-zero rate in those who get the vaccine. If we go looking closely at all persons who present with the disease, as these German researchers did, we will find that most get myocarditis.