Harambe wrote:
FWIW: Europe has always been weirdly skeptical of science. Anti-GMO for no reason. But they love homeopathy. Weird place!
Generally agree with your views, Harambe, but given how the EU has been begging the US to follow science on issues ranging from climate change to antibiotics for many, many years, this is a pretty weird take.
wejo wrote:
. . . If for example a public health official gives the impression the vaccines are 100% effective and no side effects . . .
Has any public health official done this?
wejo wrote:
i'm a scientist wrote:
not in the sense that you mean. you are trying to point out the "grey" areas to create doubt in vaccine efficacy, which COSTS LIVES
Just totally not true. It is better to have an honest discussion about things in the long run I believe. If for example a public health official gives the impression the vaccines are 100% effective and no side effects and then people see people dying who have been vaccinated or people from vaccs getting serious side effects they are then less likely to get vaccinated which I think is a bad thing.
Saying ‘the benefits outweigh the risks’ I think is a better way to get people to get the shots than ‘you’re an idiot not to vaccinate if you’re young’
I think Germany and the UK show this is complicated for kids.
This, in of itself, is a perfectly reasonable point.
That said, it has very little to do with Hocker’s situation.
If Rojo wants to own the libs with facts and logic, just point out that Hocker already has natural immunity via surviving an infection. There’s no need to dance around this weird straw man about who gets vaccinated when.
good call wrote:
Harambe wrote:
FWIW: Europe has always been weirdly skeptical of science. Anti-GMO for no reason. But they love homeopathy. Weird place!
Generally agree with your views, Harambe, but given how the EU has been begging the US to follow science on issues ranging from climate change to antibiotics for many, many years, this is a pretty weird take.
Fair point. It's a mixed bag but I generally see the EU as more suspicious of modern medicine than the USA, and not in a productive way.
The GMO thing also rubs me the wrong way.
Your examples are excellent. I think it's more safe to say both spheres do not apply rational scientific standards to every pressing issue -- i.e. don't expect consistency.
Not to dig too deep into psychoanalysis, but:
The consistent thread between Rojo’s hottest takes (vaccine protocols, super shoes, DSD athletes, etc) is the desire for PERFECT justice.
Reality is of course much more complicated. Actual policymakers, sport governing bodies, etc. have to deal with gray areas and competing priorities.
In a world in which a produced vaccine could be given to either Cole Hocker or an elderly woman with an immune deficiency disorder in sub-Saharan Africa, of course the latter should get it first.
In a world in which you could clearly regulate what does and does not constitute an “unfair” prototype shoe, of course we should ban them. (WA has introduced new rules that get close, in part due to LetsRun pressure.)
In a world in which biological sex were a clear binary, you could easily allow everyone to compete in either an all-male or all-female competition as biologically appropriate. (Once again — WA has introduced new rules that get close, in part due to LetsRun pressure.)
Of course, we don’t live in these idealized worlds, so the actual “rules” aren’t “perfect” and this frustrates Rojo. Vaccines have shelf lives and they’re difficult to distribute evenly. Shoe prototypes are generally fine until a shoe company proves truth in advertising and succeeds at making a particularly good one. Biological sex is not a simple binary.
I genuinely don’t say this just to bash Rojo. (Although I do think the opinion piece is inappropriate and unhelpful, personally.) Just noticing a trend.
RunRaider wrote:
Not to dig too deep into psychoanalysis, but:
The consistent thread between Rojo’s hottest takes (vaccine protocols, super shoes, DSD athletes, etc) is the desire for PERFECT justice.
Reality is of course much more complicated. Actual policymakers, sport governing bodies, etc. have to deal with gray areas and competing priorities.
In a world in which a produced vaccine could be given to either Cole Hocker or an elderly woman with an immune deficiency disorder in sub-Saharan Africa, of course the latter should get it first.
In a world in which you could clearly regulate what does and does not constitute an “unfair” prototype shoe, of course we should ban them. (WA has introduced new rules that get close, in part due to LetsRun pressure.)
In a world in which biological sex were a clear binary, you could easily allow everyone to compete in either an all-male or all-female competition as biologically appropriate. (Once again — WA has introduced new rules that get close, in part due to LetsRun pressure.)
Of course, we don’t live in these idealized worlds, so the actual “rules” aren’t “perfect” and this frustrates Rojo. Vaccines have shelf lives and they’re difficult to distribute evenly. Shoe prototypes are generally fine until a shoe company proves truth in advertising and succeeds at making a particularly good one. Biological sex is not a simple binary.
I genuinely don’t say this just to bash Rojo. (Although I do think the opinion piece is inappropriate and unhelpful, personally.) Just noticing a trend.
I like your post.
I think if I wrote the Hocker piece over, I'd rework it. I want as many Americans to be vaccinated as possible.
That being said, I just think the vitriol is totally WAY overblown. He's a borderline case and training for the Olympics. I totally get why he hasn't gotten it yet and wouldn't have done so if I was him I don't think.
What's disgusting is this predominately rich white woke libs bashing this kid thinking they are smarter and better than everyone. Meanwhile, they really don't give a shit about the poor brown and black elderly that make up most of the world's senior citizens.
Where was the outrage when Big Pharma offered the drugs first to healthy rich 19 year olds in America instead of those with less money in Africa?
Did your dad ask you to post this on his behalf?
rojo wrote:
Meanwhile, they really don't give a ---- about the poor brown and black elderly that make up most of the world's senior citizens.
is that why you constantly let racist garbage fester here? because you're rich and white, but not woke?
it's so laughable that you'd position yourself as the person caring about poor brown/black/elderly/etc when this site is so full of obvious racism and white grievance, thread after thread after thread
it's equally hilarious that you can say "shi-" but i can't, like your dad's money puts you at a higher level, while you continue to fail upwards like the hypocritical clown you are
rojo wrote:
What's disgusting is this predominately rich white woke libs bashing this kid thinking they are smarter and better than everyone. Meanwhile, they really don't give a sht about the poor brown and black elderly that make up most of the world's senior citizens.
Where was the outrage when Big Pharma offered the drugs first to healthy rich 19 year olds in America instead of those with less money in Africa?
From the other thread:
You do understand that 'the woke,' together with many others of all kinds of political stripes, have been calling for patent waivers, removing export bans for both vaccines and vaccine ingredients, free flow of know-how and tech transfer from day one?
(Sorry, Rojo, had to edit your quote because it set off the profanity filter ...)
rojo wrote:
RunRaider wrote:
Not to dig too deep into psychoanalysis, but:
The consistent thread between Rojo’s hottest takes (vaccine protocols, super shoes, DSD athletes, etc) is the desire for PERFECT justice.
Reality is of course much more complicated. Actual policymakers, sport governing bodies, etc. have to deal with gray areas and competing priorities.
In a world in which a produced vaccine could be given to either Cole Hocker or an elderly woman with an immune deficiency disorder in sub-Saharan Africa, of course the latter should get it first.
In a world in which you could clearly regulate what does and does not constitute an “unfair” prototype shoe, of course we should ban them. (WA has introduced new rules that get close, in part due to LetsRun pressure.)
In a world in which biological sex were a clear binary, you could easily allow everyone to compete in either an all-male or all-female competition as biologically appropriate. (Once again — WA has introduced new rules that get close, in part due to LetsRun pressure.)
Of course, we don’t live in these idealized worlds, so the actual “rules” aren’t “perfect” and this frustrates Rojo. Vaccines have shelf lives and they’re difficult to distribute evenly. Shoe prototypes are generally fine until a shoe company proves truth in advertising and succeeds at making a particularly good one. Biological sex is not a simple binary.
I genuinely don’t say this just to bash Rojo. (Although I do think the opinion piece is inappropriate and unhelpful, personally.) Just noticing a trend.
What's disgusting is this predominately rich white woke libs bashing this kid thinking they are smarter and better than everyone.
You mean yourself? You are rich, white, and a registered Democrat and you don’t care about the poor
rojo wrote:
What's disgusting is this predominately rich white woke libs bashing this kid thinking they are smarter and better than everyone. Meanwhile, they really don't give a about the poor brown and black elderly that make up most of the world's senior citizens.
Where was the outrage when Big Pharma offered the drugs first to healthy rich 19 year olds in America instead of those with less money in Africa?
So anyone who disagrees with you is a rich white liberal who hates poor people?
Where the f*** are you getting this from?!!
Kudso to whoever posted the Wired article on the risk of the vaccines in kids. It's fascinating. If I was Cole Hocker and had just gotten over Covid, there is almost zero chance I'd take the vaccine at this point in time if I had read that.
Wired wrote:
First, the link between the mRNA vaccines and myocarditis, particularly in young males, is sufficiently clear that the FDA revised its vaccine fact sheets to include a warning about it. As of June 11 (the latest date most data were collected for the meeting), 128 cases within seven days of the second dose had been reported in boys aged 12 to 17, when the CDC’s expected number for that same population was zero to four cases....
In other words, the CDC is suggesting that within this group, it is preferable for 3,000 12- to 17-year-olds to go to the emergency room after getting vaccinated than for 200 12- to 17-year-olds to be hospitalized from Covid-19. (It’s worth noting that visiting the emergency department is not the same as a hospital admission, and perhaps some portion of the visits were unrelated to the vaccine, but even if 90 percent of the ER patients weren’t admitted, that still would equate to 300 admissions, more than the 200 for Covid-19 infection.) Moreover, as two peer-reviewed studies in a journal published by the American Academy of Pediatrics found, at least 40 percent of pediatric Covid-19 hospitalizations were for patients in the hospital merely with Covid-19, not from Covid-19, meaning the 200 hospitalizations Walensky is referencing may really be around 120.
Yes the quote above is 12-17 boys but look at the chart. The table includes 18-24.
Here it is.
https://www.letsrun.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/myodcarditis.pngIt reveals, they expected 1-8 case of myocarditis for males after getting the vaccine. Instead they got 219. You think a soon to be professional distance runner, who just got over Covid, should risk getting that? No. Stop.
Now maybe in a few months I'd get it if I was him. But if I just got over covid, I'm sorry, I"m not risking it. Call it selfish whatever.
Science is a Religion wrote:
Over the past year, we've seen time and again that scientists and doctors have been absolutely wrong in these instances:
-First the scientists and doctors said that masks don't work against covid and even recommended not wearing them. Only for them to later reverse 180 degrees and never admit they were wrong.
-The scientists and doctors first fearmongered that you catch covid from touching surfaces and recommended everyone wear gloves and hand sanitizer, even telling people they need to quarantine groceries and wipe them down with disinfectant. The scientists and doctors were absolutely wrong here, too. Covid doesn't spread through surfaces.
-The joke of doctors then said protests are illegal and super super events but that BLM protests are safe because the of the politics. But not any protests against forced lockdowns! What and absolute joke.
I've been top of my classes at science all through life but now I see science is just a religion where scientists and doctors never admit they are wrong and just want to control others through a politics power play and get rich instead of anything benevolent. Science is worse than Stalin.
So any scientist who has ever been wrong was just doing so on purpose for political reasons? Can they not just be regular wrong when figuring out something wholly new to their field? Bro? You gotta think man. Nobody studies virology for 40 years to make a political power/money grab.
rojo wrote:What's disgusting is this predominately rich white woke libs bashing this kid thinking they are smarter and better than everyone. Meanwhile, they really don't give a [poopy] about the poor brown and black elderly that make up most of the world's senior citizens.
Where was the outrage when Big Pharma offered the drugs first to healthy rich 19 year olds in America instead of those with less money in Africa?
Rojo,
The Hocker stuff was pretty normal stuff for this place. I thought you like the culture here? If not, you can change it instead of blaming "rich white woke libs".
Harambe wrote:
toozy wrote:
It says it in the article:
“ The Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunization said the health benefits of universal vaccination don’t outweigh the risks for most young people, who typically suffer only mild symptoms of the virus.”
It goes on to discuss at risk groups within the age range still being vaccinated.
There’s something of a power struggle in the UK over the idea of ‘Covid passports’ - requiring proof of full vaccination to engage in certain activities. It’s all but a mandatory vaccination by proxy.
The JCVI doesn't really justify their decision on that page. They discuss the low risk of adolescent and young adult complications from COVID, but they don't seem to analyze this in comparison to the safety profile of the vaccine.
You can't just say 'low risk, no vaccine needed' if the vaccine is demonstrably better safety-wise than COVID itself. The CDC ran these numbers and decided that, yes, it is. The UK even did this for the AZ vaccine and clotting and decided that unless COVID cases were very low, the vaccine is a net benefit to young adults.
Weird that the JCVI doesn't seem to want to run these numbers.
As mentioned, the at risk groups are still being vaccinated.
The statistics for people who aren’t at risk are readily available. In the under 40 category fewer people have died without underlying conditions than most people realise.
I think it has to do with ethics. There is no problem vaccinating a child against something that can him/her , polio etc, but it goes against medical ethics to say a child has to be vaccinated to protect adults in a society. The evidence that children are affected by Covid is minimal. This on top of the fact that the vaccines have not been properly test on children.
* harm him/her
knox harrington wrote:
rojo wrote:What's disgusting is this predominately rich white woke libs bashing this kid thinking they are smarter and better than everyone. Meanwhile, they really don't give a [poopy] about the poor brown and black elderly that make up most of the world's senior citizens.
Where was the outrage when Big Pharma offered the drugs first to healthy rich 19 year olds in America instead of those with less money in Africa?
Rojo,
The Hocker stuff was pretty normal stuff for this place. I thought you like the culture here? If not, you can change it instead of blaming "rich white woke libs".
Yeah what’s up with him blaming rich white libs??? Really weird. Is Rojo feeling okay?
[quote]Tatar... wrote:
The data seems to say Covid is very unlikely to make you sick if you are under 18 but also the chances of the vaccine making you sick is also very very small.
And you can still get Covid is you are vaxxed.
Stay away from the jab.
Jakob Ingebrigtsen has a 1989 Ferrari 348 GTB and he's just put in paperwork to upgrade it
Strava thinks the London Marathon times improved 12 minutes last year thanks to supershoes
Is there a rule against attaching a helium balloon to yourself while running a road race?
Clayton Murphy is giving some great insight into his training.
NAU women have no excuse - they should win it all at 2024 NCAA XC
Mark Coogan says that if you could only do 3 workouts as a 1500m runner you should do these
2024 College Track & Field Open Coaching Positions Discussion
