If we were actually following the data and science and weren't selfish, we wouldn't allow Cole Hocker to get vaccinated now

Agree with everything you wrote but am curious if you have any data on infections with Delta in vaccinated vs. prior infected patients.

AFAIK the data suggests that antibody titers are higher in vaccinated people vs recovered, but that recovered + vaccinated people are even higher.

Both groups have robust T-cell responses.

There doesn't seem to be a clear "winner" in natural vs. vaccine-driven immunity yet, although the media is focused strongly on vaccine breakthroughs.

rojo wrote:

Billy Madison wrote:

This has to be one of the stupidest takes ever written on this website, and I've been reading since the beginning.

Not just stupid, but extremely irresponsible.

Get those clicks , though.

You think it's irresponsible that I"m calling on the world's youth to turn down the vaccine until we can save the most vulnerable - namely the world's elderly?

I think you are the one that is being irresponsible.

I think it's just the opposite. People talk about white privilege and1st world privilege. The idea that we'd use a potentially life-saving vaccine on one of America's healthiest people in Cole Hocker ris absolutely disgusting if you really think about it. A senior citizen in Mexico or Kenya etc needs it much more

How do you think Americans turning down the vaccine is going to allow people in other countries to get vaccinated quicker?

Dim Tillon wrote:

rojo wrote:

You think it's irresponsible that I"m calling on the world's youth to turn down the vaccine until we can save the most vulnerable - namely the world's elderly?

I think you are the one that is being irresponsible.

I think it's just the opposite. People talk about white privilege and1st world privilege. The idea that we'd use a potentially life-saving vaccine on one of America's healthiest people in Cole Hocker ris absolutely disgusting if you really think about it. A senior citizen in Mexico or Kenya etc needs it much more

How do you think Americans turning down the vaccine is going to allow people in other countries to get vaccinated quicker?

He doesn't. He just wanted an excuse to shut down the narrative in the previous and re-frame it in this thread... now that we are back to narrative #1, I expect this will be shut down too.

For those TRULY interested in science and not propaganda….protection against the dominant variant in the world, delta, is not as good with prior natural infection as vaccination. The Cleveland Clinic study cited by others was prior to delta. Follow the science. If you do, you know that Hocker, and everybody else should get vaccinated regardless if they had the virus before.

Here is a sample. If Rojo wants to learn more and revise his opinion piece, he should contact me. Yes, Hocker could time his vaccine doses and preserve his awesome kick. Not getting vaccinated is dumb and probably it should be mandated to force dummies to do the right thing.

Reduced sensitivity of SARS-CoV-2 variant Delta to antibody neutralization

Delphine Planas, David Veyer, […]Olivier Schwartz

Nature (2021)Cite this article

186k Accesses

4687 Altmetric

Metrics details

Abstract

The SARS-CoV-2 B.1.617 lineage was identified in October 2020 in India1–5. It has since then become dominant in some indian regions and UK and further spread to many countries6. The lineage includes three main subtypes (B1.617.1, B.1.617.2 and B.1.617.3), harbouring diverse Spike mutations in the N-terminal domain (NTD) and the receptor binding domain (RBD) which may increase their immune evasion potential. B.1.617.2, also termed variant Delta, is believed to spread faster than other variants. Here, we isolated an infectious Delta strain from a traveller returning from India. We examined its sensitivity to monoclonal antibodies (mAbs) and to antibodies present in sera from COVID-19 convalescent individuals or vaccine recipients, in comparison to other viral strains. Variant Delta was resistant to neutralization by some anti-NTD and anti-RBD mAbs including Bamlanivimab, which were impaired in binding to the Spike. Sera from convalescent patients collected up to 12 months post symptoms were 4 fold less potent against variant Delta, relative to variant Alpha (B.1.1.7). Sera from individuals having received one dose of Pfizer or AstraZeneca vaccines barely inhibited variant Delta. Administration of two doses generated a neutralizing response in 95% of individuals, with titers 3 to 5 fold lower against Delta than Alpha. Thus, variant Delta spread is associated with an escape to antibodies targeting non-RBD and RBD Spike epitopes.

More of the same. Get vaccinated, even if you have been infected. Don’t be a dummy. Sorry Cole, you are a great runner and I’m pulling for you.

https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2021/06/22/how-immunity-generated-from-covid-19-vaccines-differs-from-an-infection/amp/

It is well known by elite athletes that the covid vaccines dramatically decrease your fitness for a long time, even months or longer as in Jakob Fuglsang. It's why do many athletes are hesitant to take these covid vaccines, they have nasty side effects for elite athletes who depend on being able to use their bodies to the fullest capacities.

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/olympic-games-covid-vaccine-wrecked-my-tour-de-france-says-fuglsang/

This is such a dumb post, based on a half-baked understanding of the science and Japan's safety guidelines. Even those with Covid antibodies can contract and pass on the virus, however, the vaccines reduce the chances of you contracting the virus by ~50%. In epidemiological terms, that's huge. We also one that the antibodies that a person generates from previous exposure to the virus diminish over time, who knows what level of protection Hocker has - there are tests so this can be known.

This isn't just about one person making a decision for themselves, it's a bout protecting other athletes that they may come into contact with, and Japan, where vaccination rates are low.

The argument that Hocker would be stealing a vaccine from a needy person elsewhere in the world is just dumb beyond words. Vaccines are not in short supply anymore (some countries literally have millions of doses stockpiled). The problem now is logistics, and unless Hocker is going to hand deliver his vaccine dose personally to some elderly person in Bangladesh, then him doing the right thing and taking his vaccine isn't depriving anyone.

He doesn't deserve vitriol, but he is being careless and selfish

You are an idiot!

The goal is to get to hurt immunity. No chance of ever getting there with so many unvaccinated walking around, even the young and healthy they Cole Hocker

Dictated this while driving, obviously I mean “you’re,” “herd,” and “like”

Rojo isn’t very smart

That sounds like an issue for the United States government and other global leaders to deal with. The vaccine is available, safe and effective. I don't know what the big deal is.

I used to think Rojo took these positions because of bad faith or opportunism (or capitalism, since they lead to clicks). But I’m becoming more convinced that Rojo is on the autism spectrum. The way he talks (especially when interviewing someone), the way he presents such a myopic argument about a complex topic, the way he defends his positions without ever engaging in contrary views (case in point, his “responses” on this thread), reminds me of friends and family who have been diagnosed.

I genuinely don’t mean this in as a slight and I have no background in any psych or science (which, according to LRC rules, means I am uniquely qualified to opine on such topics). I am just trying to understand how we got here.

paper boi wrote:

I used to think Rojo took these positions because of bad faith or opportunism (or capitalism, since they lead to clicks). But I’m becoming more convinced that Rojo is on the autism spectrum. The way he talks (especially when interviewing someone), the way he presents such a myopic argument about a complex topic, the way he defends his positions without ever engaging in contrary views (case in point, his “responses” on this thread), reminds me of friends and family who have been diagnosed.

I genuinely don’t mean this in as a slight and I have no background in any psych or science (which, according to LRC rules, means I am uniquely qualified to opine on such topics). I am just trying to understand how we got here.

agreed. I 100% think this is the case. Not a slight, just a scientific observation

Yikes, that argumentation was poor.

1. Is it really easier to ship a vaccine on the brink of expiration half way around the world? No, of course not. Any vaccine Hocker receives is preventing it from being thrown in the trash, not depriving the developing world of it.

2. Death is not the concern for someone perusing a career that relies on optimal lung function. Long-covid occurs in an estimated 10-25% of covid survivors. Vaccination reduces the risk of catching the virus and therefore the risk of long-haul symptoms, which could be prohibitive to earning money as a pro.

3. Hocker contracted covid in recent months. It may well have been after the vaccine was available to him. Clearly his risk analysis was off. The vaccine symptoms weighed against covid symptoms heavily favor getting the vaccine, as symptoms are virtually guaranteed to wear off within 2-3 days. This risk comparison, rather, is that of catching the virus at all vs getting the vaccine, since you might avoid symptoms completely dodging the virus, but give yourself a 50/50 shot with the the shot. I’m a few years older than Hocker, and I would say the majority >80% of the people I’ve talked to about it felt fine and either had no symptoms, or symptoms that resolved within 24 hours. Personally I had no symptoms and went for a medium effort 10 miler the day after my 2nd dose and felt perfectly normal.

Rojo:

The vaccine was phased in. Elderly and individuals with underlying conditions had first go. The next phases were only released to younger and healthier people after all the older and more vulnerable, and those in high risk jobs, had a chance to get them. At this point anyone who wanted one could have got one.

Your argument makes no sense in light of the above. It’s idiotic and irresponsible.

/thread

birdbearddos wrote:

Rojo:

The vaccine was phased in. Elderly and individuals with underlying conditions had first go. The next phases were only released to younger and healthier people after all the older and more vulnerable, and those in high risk jobs, had a chance to get them. At this point anyone who wanted one could have got one.

Your argument makes no sense in light of the above. It’s idiotic and irresponsible.

/thread

+1

-cole hocker is in the age group that is spreading covid the most

-there is no ethical way to travel unvaccinated to a country like Japan with low vaccination rate

-STFU!

nojodumb wrote:

Rojo is so dumb on this one.

Not only forgetting that many olympians from around the world who will travel to Tokyo are not vaccinated simply because their countries do not have vaccine supplies, but that in the US, everyone who wants a vaccine has access to one.

Translation: Hocker is potentially endangering others out of his own selfishness and most likely misinformed opinion on vaccines. Shameful.

Rojo, your argument is moot and based on absolutely no science what so ever.

Your first sentence is three words too long.

As a general rule, if one highlights and engages only those with whom they agree, they are rationalizing, not doing science. Addressing the best arguments against your position would be "normal science".

Also endorsing a post dismissing others as "almost religious" in a thread where you've deleted and explicitly called out ad hominems is not a great look.