If we were actually following the data and science and weren't selfish, we wouldn't allow Cole Hocker to get vaccinated now

rojo wrote:

Quote Post. wrote:

Rojo,

You want us to take you up on a bet based on a fictional hypothetical that you control the rules and facts over? No.

I’ll do you one better, Rojo. I bet you $1000 that a “virology expert” will disagree with the premise of your bet and your original post in this thread.

I bet you won’t respond

I control the rules and facts over? No. I'm just using the facts I put in my article.

I said I'll bet you. And I most definitely will respond. I wnat to make some big time cash. We call up 10 virology experts and ask them the following.

"We need you to help settle a debate. Please tell me if the following statement is true or false. If we were truly following the science, we would first offer the Covid-19 vaccine to all of the world's senior citizens before we offered it to healthy 20 year old Americans."

I mean how in the world can anyone deny that. The death rate for a 65 year old is at least 95 times higher.

Who is going to make the calls and how do we decide who counts as an expert?

2600 bro wrote:

Jefe in the CO wrote:

I posted this in another thread awhile ago. We know that vaccines come with short term and long term complications, not just what shows up in the VAERS data base, but long term injuries that don't present themselves until much later:

"Prof Ley told me: "We have over the past 50 years done a terrific job of eliminating infectious disease.

"But we have seen an enormous and terrifying increase in autoimmune disease and in allergy.

"Where work on the microbiome comes in is seeing how changes in the microbiome, that happened as a result of the success we've had fighting pathogens, have now contributed to a whole new set of diseases that we have to deal with."

The microbiome is also being linked to diseases including inflammatory bowel disease, Parkinson's, whether cancer drugs work and even depression and autism."

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-43674270

The vaccination debate really only centers around whether the threat from Covid is greater than the threat to our short and long term health.

I'm guessing that the reason there is so much virtue signaling and public shaming around vaccinations is because we, as a nation, are so frightened of Covid. As well we should be because we are so fundamentally unhealthy (obesity is the highest risk factor for those with Covid).

We have no collective knowledge of how best to protect ourselves from disease and apparently have no desire to learn how. So instead we outsource our immune system to the medical community - arguably the worst place to seek protection. What we need to be doing is educating our citizens on how best to get off the pills and get on to the business of cultivating our good microbes (yes I do realize that there's no money in that.)

It has already been stated that we are shipping 50 million plus vaccines to other parts of the world. So for argument sake, if all the Cole Hockers of the US got their vaccines then we'd only be shipping 20 million to the third world?

So while many complain that Rojo's argument may have been clumsily stated - his point is valid. I understand that for the vaccine orthodoxy this is a tough pill to swallow but it likely has less adverse effect on your health than the actual vaccine.

I do agree that for the obese, elderly, and immune compromised, Covid is a very real threat. To the rest of us...not so much.

So what's left? A personal decision by Cole, who presumably has natural immunity, to take the shot or rely on his immune system?

Let's see: he's young, healthy, not obese, has natural immunity, no comorbidities. Conclusion: Go pick on someone else. I'm sure there's better pariahs out there to publicly castigate.

I'm not sure why the orthodoxy wants to make an example out of Cole when there are so many other individuals who's heads should be on a pike. Maybe political correctness?

Nothing in your post showed evidence of "short or long term effects" from vaccination. Just blatant baseless fearmongering. One of the largest triggers for long-term autoimmunity is high-dose viral infection... guess what the easiest way to prevent that?

2600 bro wrote:

Jefe in the CO wrote:

I don't think anything I wrote rose to the level of fearmongering.

Setting your knee jerk response aside for a moment, what is your take on microbiomes and their effect on our health? More specifically, is it possible that vaccines can disrupt a healthy microbiome as Professor Ley asserted (please don't tell me she's a quack too!)

Yes the microbiome has tremendous impact on how our immune system developed and learns what’s good and bad.

Yes it’s possible vaccines influence that

Yes it’s possible hygienic lifestyle influences that

Yes it’s possible food influences that

Yes it’s possible genetics influence that

Yes it’s possible viral infections influence that's

We are just barely beginning to understand the cause effect relationships in the microbiome. What we can do it look at vaccinated populations vs unvaccinated and see if there are safety signals for autoimmunity. By and large there are not!

Vaccines carry very small risks of adverse effects. All the things I listed can cause bad things too!

The risks of COVID infection so far outweigh the risks of the vaccine that it’s just disingenuous to posture about “long term risks” when the preventative benefit is so massive. It comes across as speculation to defend preexisting dogma.

Lead Foil Hat XXIV wrote:

Yeah about that wrote:

Your argument doesn’t work.

The US has shared vaccines.

https://apnews.com/article/politics-health-business-government-and-politics-coronavirus-26fa41b98fab721218d9a51065351d9dhttps://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2021-06-28/us-ships-first-coronavirus-vaccines-abroad-donating-2-million-to-peru

The US has a plan to share more with other countries.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2021/06/21/fact-sheet-biden-harris-administration-announces-allocation-plan-for-55-million-doses-to-be-shared-globally/

Stop rehashing Rojo’s false premise.

55 million; you do know there are billions of old people in the world. There is no reason other than stupidity, politics and money that they could not immediately round up millions more and ship them to needing countries ASAP. There is also no reason that Hocker needs to get the mRNA jab if he is not comfortable doing so. The OCD Nazis have become absurd as well as uselessly unscientific about this. Get the vaccines tio those who need them and stop piscing about those that do not. Stopping severe illness is how you stop the variants, and considering those vaccinated can still get mild infections there is no difference. The vaccine does not prevent infection, it prevents severe illness and does not really change the odds of infection. I am pretty sure the data now say that asymptomatic spread is a bunk concept anyway....que Harambe to chime in now about presymptomatic spread. Young people who are not going to get sick are most likely no more likely to spread the virus than those vaccinated. Quit the Nazi disinfo campaign, please. The world will be fine if Cole Hocker does not get the mRNA vaccine.

Yeah about that wrote:

Lead Foil Hat XXIV wrote:

55 million; you do know there are billions of old people in the world. There is no reason other than stupidity, politics and money that they could not immediately round up millions more and ship them to needing countries ASAP. There is also no reason that Hocker needs to get the mRNA jab if he is not comfortable doing so. The OCD Nazis have become absurd as well as uselessly unscientific about this. Get the vaccines tio those who need them and stop piscing about those that do not. Stopping severe illness is how you stop the variants, and considering those vaccinated can still get mild infections there is no difference. The vaccine does not prevent infection, it prevents severe illness and does not really change the odds of infection. I am pretty sure the data now say that asymptomatic spread is a bunk concept anyway....que Harambe to chime in now about presymptomatic spread. Young people who are not going to get sick are most likely no more likely to spread the virus than those vaccinated. Quit the Nazi disinfo campaign, please. The world will be fine if Cole Hocker does not get the mRNA vaccine.

Work on your comprehension skills buddy.

I was addressing this false claim “ the US government and the vaccine producers could have been working hard the last few months to start redirecting shots to disadvantage countries.”

My examples undermine that false claim completely.

Nice to hear from you 👋🏼