If we were actually following the data and science and weren't selfish, we wouldn't allow Cole Hocker to get vaccinated now

If the argument were that because he's an elite athlete and he wants to be at his very best for the Olympics and therefore doesn't want to take the vaccine now because it could hamper his training and/or his performance at The Olympics, then that's one thing, and we could probably have some reasonable debate on that.

BUT, that is not what Rojo and some others are saying.

Saying that it's ethical to not take it because there are elderly people elsewhere in the world who need it is wrong.

Saying he's not at risk because he's young and healthy is wrong.

Saying that anyone who is vaccinated shouldn't care if others are vaccinated or not is wrong.

Say it louder for the people in the back!

Say it louder for the people in the back!

Rojo, did you eat paint chips as a kid?

Rojo, unfortunately you're way off base with your article. You could have made a point by saying if he already had Covid it's within reason that he would decide not to take the risk of missing training and getting the vaccine (I'm not sure I would have agreed but it's within reason). To suggest that you're following science simply isn't true. As numerous other posts have pointed out, you're making a logical fallacy but suggesting Hocker not getting the vaccine has any impact on the rest of the world getting vaccinated. Even though you're trying to use the caveat that you're pro-vaccine you're using anti-vaccine arguments and logic. Saying that your argument follows science when it goes against the recommendations of the CDC is ludicrous. Unfortunately the only impact you're article might have is to reinforce some young healthy people in our countries excuses and reasons to not get vaccinated. You took what could have been a valid concern (people treating Hocker unfairly) and responded in the wrong way. Very disappointed in your take on this.

Another example of comparative risk analysis failure.

Emotions =/= facts

No, I’m still only to the 9th power.

Rojo will never back down and never admit fault of any kind. This, among other things, is what he and Greg have in common

+1 didn't read your post before I posted a similar take

Rojo, I challenge you to find a scientist that specializes in virology or epidemiology that agrees with your logic and post it on the site. Until then stop arguing you're following the science.

5kTime wrote:

Rojo, I challenge you to find a scientist that specializes in virology or epidemiology that agrees with your logic and post it on the site.

He can't and he won't

I posted this in another thread awhile ago. We know that vaccines come with short term and long term complications, not just what shows up in the VAERS data base, but long term injuries that don't present themselves until much later:

"Prof Ley told me: "We have over the past 50 years done a terrific job of eliminating infectious disease.

"But we have seen an enormous and terrifying increase in autoimmune disease and in allergy.

"Where work on the microbiome comes in is seeing how changes in the microbiome, that happened as a result of the success we've had fighting pathogens, have now contributed to a whole new set of diseases that we have to deal with."

The microbiome is also being linked to diseases including inflammatory bowel disease, Parkinson's, whether cancer drugs work and even depression and autism."

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-43674270

The vaccination debate really only centers around whether the threat from Covid is greater than the threat to our short and long term health.

I'm guessing that the reason there is so much virtue signaling and public shaming around vaccinations is because we, as a nation, are so frightened of Covid. As well we should be because we are so fundamentally unhealthy (obesity is the highest risk factor for those with Covid).

We have no collective knowledge of how best to protect ourselves from disease and apparently have no desire to learn how. So instead we outsource our immune system to the medical community - arguably the worst place to seek protection. What we need to be doing is educating our citizens on how best to get off the pills and get on to the business of cultivating our good microbes (yes I do realize that there's no money in that.)

It has already been stated that we are shipping 50 million plus vaccines to other parts of the world. So for argument sake, if all the Cole Hockers of the US got their vaccines then we'd only be shipping 20 million to the third world?

So while many complain that Rojo's argument may have been clumsily stated - his point is valid. I understand that for the vaccine orthodoxy this is a tough pill to swallow but it likely has less adverse effect on your health than the actual vaccine.

I do agree that for the obese, elderly, and immune compromised, Covid is a very real threat. To the rest of us...not so much.

So what's left? A personal decision by Cole, who presumably has natural immunity, to take the shot or rely on his immune system?

Let's see: he's young, healthy, not obese, has natural immunity, no comorbidities. Conclusion: Go pick on someone else. I'm sure there's better pariahs out there to publicly castigate.

I'm not sure why the orthodoxy wants to make an example out of Cole when there are so many other individuals who's heads should be on a pike. Maybe political correctness?

Nothing in your post showed evidence of "short or long term effects" from vaccination. Just blatant baseless fearmongering. One of the largest triggers for long-term autoimmunity is high-dose viral infection... guess what the easiest way to prevent that?

Sad you have to start with… “I am pro-vaccine, but”

How about just: If we follow the science.

Why does anyone need to be “pro-vaccine”. Isn’t this a decision left to individuals and their chosen Physicians?. Are you a Physician?

young well hung Republican wrote:

Rojo usually I like you and your articles but you’re being moronic. Cole Hocker declining a vaccine doesn’t get it sent to India or any other country. It just gets wasted and thrown out. e.

I never said it did. Read the description I have on the front page.

My main point is save the vitriol you have for Hocker and direct it towards the govts.

it blows my mind that that rich and largely white woke twitter mob wants to attack a well off white kid for not being vaxxed while hundreds of millions of the world's black and brown elderly are unvaxxed.

I have changed one word in the piece as a result and added a PS.

PS. After publication, I changed one word in the article. Where it says, " We should not be allowing Cole Hocker and millions of other super healthy young people to get vaccinated right now," it initially said "we should not be encouraging Cole Hocker".

Many people seem hung up on the fact that if Hocker turns down a vaccine that it's unlikely to make it to a third-world country with the way things are currently set up. I agree that's probably true. My main point though is that largely rich, white woke twitter mob that is attacking Hocker should save that passion for the governments and Big Pharma. Instead of attacking Hocker, direct that same ire at the govts and big Pharma companies until they allow the hundreds of millions of largely poor black and brown seniors of the world to be vaccinated.

2600 bro wrote:

Nothing in your post showed evidence of "short or long term effects" from vaccination. Just blatant baseless fearmongering. One of the largest triggers for long-term autoimmunity is high-dose viral infection... guess what the easiest way to prevent that?

I don't think anything I wrote rose to the level of fearmongering.

Setting your knee jerk response aside for a moment, what is your take on microbiomes and their effect on our health? More specifically, is it possible that vaccines can disrupt a healthy microbiome as Professor Ley asserted (please don't tell me she's a quack too!)

Rojo: “it blows my mind that that rich and largely white woke twitter mob wants to attack a well off white kid for not being vaxxed while hundreds of millions of the world's black and brown elderly are unvaxxed.”

Could you be any dumber?

Can you call facebook? Can you call twitter? No you can't. You can call me and i'll pick up phone.

I keep hearing about all of the racism and sexism but no one can ever find a post that is actually racist or sexist that doens't get deleted. Remember when a prominent steeplechaser raised a stink about it about a year or two ago. She was complaining about posts that GOT DELETED.

Now I'm not saying that people don't posts awful things. They do. And I'm sure we don't delete them all. But moderation is hard. WE can do better but again, feel free to pick up the phone and call me.

You raise an interesting point.

They've done their part - why in the F do they care so much about it?

The answer is

1) the kids can't be vaxxed. I personally am still concerned about my 3 year old and

2) There are many immunocompromised people.

3) There are a lot of people around the globe with no access to it.

Again, I've personally had a conversation with a friend of mine who is under 35 and begged him to get vaxxed for reasons #1 and #2.

But I think many of these WWWPs - (well-off, white, woke people) - feel guilt about #3. Deep down they know what we've done in this country is selfish.

Jefe in the CO wrote:

2600 bro wrote:

Nothing in your post showed evidence of "short or long term effects" from vaccination. Just blatant baseless fearmongering. One of the largest triggers for long-term autoimmunity is high-dose viral infection... guess what the easiest way to prevent that?

I don't think anything I wrote rose to the level of fearmongering.

Setting your knee jerk response aside for a moment, what is your take on microbiomes and their effect on our health? More specifically, is it possible that vaccines can disrupt a healthy microbiome as Professor Ley asserted (please don't tell me she's a quack too!)

I read what you wrote, you’re wrong, it was chicken little like.