Did each one of them specifically tell you the program was unhealthy for them or was it more in the nature of they made complaints to you, and you in turn formed your opinion that the program was unhealthy for them?
I was all in with you on some of your points...but now you are just harassing to harass. Lets all agree some of the athletes hate it and think it is toxic and some love it and think its the best ever. Wow. Like literally every other program in the country. Someone saying their first hand experience and observation of the program is not perfect does not need to PROVE to YOU that is the case. It is called an OPINION! So many BYU people turn on the witch hunt if anyone says anything negative. PROVE IT! SHOW ME! I DONT BELIEVE YOU! I KNOW PEOPLE WHO LOVE IT! NEWS FLASH...Its not perfect there for everyone. I can not believe you do not accept that!
Did each one of them specifically tell you the program was unhealthy for them or was it more in the nature of they made complaints to you, and you in turn formed your opinion that the program was unhealthy for them?
Do you have any specialized training that would qualify you to make such an opinion (this is not meant as critical, I’m just trying to understand why all these women came to you and how you were able to make the determination you did)?
Do you have any specialized training or first hand knowledge of the dynamics of the team other than what the socials tell you. I am just trying to understand why you are able to make all of these determinations.
My blanket statements are the same as yours. You are taking the word of 3% of the team and making a claim.
Entire teams aren’t interviewed. National champions are. Those are the ones who would have nothing but positive things to say, so your point is utterly useless if that’s your “evidence”.
Here is an instagram post from last week from one who was not a national champion. In fact due to injuries she was never able to contribute much at all on the track.
The photo is of her on her knees beside the track at Stanford injured. Coach Taylor is on her knees beside her with her arm around her.
"This picture is blurry but life can be blurry and messy sometimes. I ran my last race of college a couple weeks ago broken. I came into this program broken and now I am leaving it broken. Quite poetic I think. I am grateful for the brokenness and struggle in my story. Because of my brokenness I was able to let Christ into my life. These 4 years have not been what I expected but they have taught me how to rely on the strength of Christ every single day. I also saw the love and belief of this coach holding me up. She never could take the injuries away but she always held me in the midst of the darkness. Forever grateful for this incredible coach who never gave up on me. She always told me we can’t control the cards we are dealt in life but we can play the hell out of them. And that’s what we did! She also told me once “sometimes we lose the battle and win the war and sometimes we lose the battle and lose the war. But we come out a stronger soldier than before.”
I was all in with you on some of your points...but now you are just harassing to harass. Lets all agree some of the athletes hate it and think it is toxic and some love it and think its the best ever. Wow. Like literally every other program in the country. Someone saying their first hand experience and observation of the program is not perfect does not need to PROVE to YOU that is the case. It is called an OPINION! So many BYU people turn on the witch hunt if anyone says anything negative. PROVE IT! SHOW ME! I DONT BELIEVE YOU! I KNOW PEOPLE WHO LOVE IT! NEWS FLASH...Its not perfect there for everyone. I can not believe you do not accept that!
Feel better?
The claim made is pretty widespread, not just a single person’s opinion. Asking questions isn’t harassment. I’m genuinely trying to understand.
If you’ve spent any time on LR at all, you’d know the extent to which baseless allegations are made against BYU all the time. No one is saying the program is perfect, but there are more than a few claiming that it is literally evil. That is the true witch hunt.
I do have specialized knowledge of, and connection to, the team.
Again, the original claim was a blanket statement. I don’t need to be a psychologist or current member of the team to point to evidence that contradicts a blanket statement.
BTC has stated that, at least in part, she formed her own opinion that the program is unhealthy for other athletes. I’m trying to understand how she reached that opinion.
I was all in with you on some of your points...but now you are just harassing to harass. Lets all agree some of the athletes hate it and think it is toxic and some love it and think its the best ever. Wow. Like literally every other program in the country. Someone saying their first hand experience and observation of the program is not perfect does not need to PROVE to YOU that is the case. It is called an OPINION! So many BYU people turn on the witch hunt if anyone says anything negative. PROVE IT! SHOW ME! I DONT BELIEVE YOU! I KNOW PEOPLE WHO LOVE IT! NEWS FLASH...Its not perfect there for everyone. I can not believe you do not accept that!
OED is trying to get her to define the toxicity (which is a far overused word these days) in the program - what is the source of the "unhappiness". Toxic connotes something nefarious, as if done on purpose. Is it lack of individual development, potential or actual eating disorders, is it trying to sleep with the athletes, favoring specific athletes, all of the above. Or just not creating an environment where everyone gets along in harmony (good luck with that on a competitive girls team). I have no idea, but to call something toxic is a serious charge. Or it could just be spoiled little College girls who feels the coach and sport owes them something (good luck with that as well).
you are never going to be ok with anyone saying anything about BYU that you don't like are you? Ever heard of Emma Gee? She has a whole podcast of former and current BYU athletes who have things to say about how they were treated at BYU. Thats ok. Not everyone has to love it. Gaslighting everyone who hates it is going to take up a lot of your energy. Move on. There are people who hate other schools too man. Don't make yourself the victim all the time.. Its not that serious.
you are never going to be ok with anyone saying anything about BYU that you don't like are you? Ever heard of Emma Gee? She has a whole podcast of former and current BYU athletes who have things to say about how they were treated at BYU. Thats ok. Not everyone has to love it. Gaslighting everyone who hates it is going to take up a lot of your energy. Move on. There are people who hate other schools too man. Don't make yourself the victim all the time.. Its not that serious.
Wow, you made all those determinations about me based a few internet posts? Impressive.
Having gone through the program, I have my own fair share of complaints. But this is no different than almost any other athlete at any other school. Of course not everyone finds BYU to be a good fit for them. Of course few, if any, find the situation to be perfect. And of course some have an absolutely poor experience at the school (although the vast majority of this group have an issue with the LDS religion far moreso than any athletic team). But we’re not discussing any of that. We’re looking at a claim that Taylor’s program is unhealthy for most of the women who are part of it. Nothing you’ve thrown out so far has addressed that.
Also, you really need to look up the definition of gaslighting. Might I suggest you refer to the OED for guidance.
Do you have any specialized training that would qualify you to make such an opinion (this is not meant as critical, I’m just trying to understand why all these women came to you and how you were able to make the determination you did)?
They didn’t just come to me? It’s a team that all talks to one another. I’m just the one that popped on here
Do you have any specialized training that would qualify you to make such an opinion (this is not meant as critical, I’m just trying to understand why all these women came to you and how you were able to make the determination you did)?
They didn’t just come to me? It’s a team that all talks to one another. I’m just the one that popped on here
So you didn’t speak with each of them personally about this?
So you didn’t speak with each of them personally about this?
I did
Like one on one, or as part of a group? To put it another way, is this a situation where they thought “I need to tell BTC about this” or was it more of a gripe session where you happened to be present (I don’t say “gripe session” to be critical - anyone whose ever had a coach or a boss has done it).
Like one on one, or as part of a group? To put it another way, is this a situation where they thought “I need to tell BTC about this” or was it more of a gripe session where you happened to be present (I don’t say “gripe session” to be critical - anyone whose ever had a coach or a boss has done it).
Ok, let me explain what I’m getting at using marriage as an example:
Almost every married couple goes through a period of time where things just don’t seem to be working out between them. They fight and argue constantly, and have trouble connecting for whatever the reason. Often, each spouse will turn to their friends for support in these times. They will confide in them all of their frustrations and concerns, and talk openly about how their spouse makes them feel. In short, they blow off steam to their friends. It is not uncommon in these situations for the friends to grow to hate their friend’s spouse. They think he’s a brute and a dead beat, or that she’s selfish and vindictive because that seems the only thing their friend ever says when talking about their spouse. What the friends don’t see or hear about though, is what happens when the spouse are alone afterwards. They don’t see when the spouses make up. They don’t see how much love they truly have for each other, how willing they become to forgive each other’s mistake, and just how dedicated each spouse is to making the other happy. The friends only hear the bad but do not see the good.
I’m not questioning your personal experience. What I am questioning though is just how many of these 20 or so women would agree with the serious statement you have made about the program, especially considering that the criticism you have levied doesn’t seem to have been shared publicly by others. That’s not an unreasonable expectation given the numbers you claim, and it absolutely contradicts public statements made by others who have been a part of the program. Sometimes people just blow off steam together. That doesn’t necessarily mean they would describe the program the same way that you do.
Ok, let me explain what I’m getting at using marriage as an example:
Almost every married couple goes through a period of time where things just don’t seem to be working out between them. They fight and argue constantly, and have trouble connecting for whatever the reason. Often, each spouse will turn to their friends for support in these times. They will confide in them all of their frustrations and concerns, and talk openly about how their spouse makes them feel. In short, they blow off steam to their friends. It is not uncommon in these situations for the friends to grow to hate their friend’s spouse. They think he’s a brute and a dead beat, or that she’s selfish and vindictive because that seems the only thing their friend ever says when talking about their spouse. What the friends don’t see or hear about though, is what happens when the spouse are alone afterwards. They don’t see when the spouses make up. They don’t see how much love they truly have for each other, how willing they become to forgive each other’s mistake, and just how dedicated each spouse is to making the other happy. The friends only hear the bad but do not see the good.
I’m not questioning your personal experience. What I am questioning though is just how many of these 20 or so women would agree with the serious statement you have made about the program, especially considering that the criticism you have levied doesn’t seem to have been shared publicly by others. That’s not an unreasonable expectation given the numbers you claim, and it absolutely contradicts public statements made by others who have been a part of the program. Sometimes people just blow off steam together. That doesn’t necessarily mean they would describe the program the same way that you do.
For some I bet that’s true… for others probably not.
Ok, let me explain what I’m getting at using marriage as an example:
Almost every married couple goes through a period of time where things just don’t seem to be working out between them. They fight and argue constantly, and have trouble connecting for whatever the reason. Often, each spouse will turn to their friends for support in these times. They will confide in them all of their frustrations and concerns, and talk openly about how their spouse makes them feel. In short, they blow off steam to their friends. It is not uncommon in these situations for the friends to grow to hate their friend’s spouse. They think he’s a brute and a dead beat, or that she’s selfish and vindictive because that seems the only thing their friend ever says when talking about their spouse. What the friends don’t see or hear about though, is what happens when the spouse are alone afterwards. They don’t see when the spouses make up. They don’t see how much love they truly have for each other, how willing they become to forgive each other’s mistake, and just how dedicated each spouse is to making the other happy. The friends only hear the bad but do not see the good.
I’m not questioning your personal experience. What I am questioning though is just how many of these 20 or so women would agree with the serious statement you have made about the program, especially considering that the criticism you have levied doesn’t seem to have been shared publicly by others. That’s not an unreasonable expectation given the numbers you claim, and it absolutely contradicts public statements made by others who have been a part of the program. Sometimes people just blow off steam together. That doesn’t necessarily mean they would describe the program the same way that you do.
For some I bet that’s true… for others probably not.
Then you probably shouldn’t insinuate that you are speaking for anyone other than yourself.