Colby Alexander 3:33!!!!

Kiss of death on this board, run well and just get bashed. Get a life know it all slow F***s

The Original Rastus wrote:

You have no context and I'll use your thinking against you. Centro was beaten in 2019 by Kerr and Wightman, two younger guys that you claim are inferior to Hocker based on your belief that you use a third party athlete as a barometer. And Centro was beaten in a real race, no pacer, championship race and that was with Centro not only running an SB, he ran a time that Hocker is 3 seconds off. You're trying to pass that same thinking off as definitive truth. You can't have it both ways when it suits your boy.

It goes by the archaic thinking that if two teams beat the same opponent by a different score that the two results show which team is better. And that's been proven wrong countless times.

Centro was also beaten in 2019 at USAs by Craig Engels, who was in the exact same shape as he is this year. If Centro brought his same performance in 2021 that he brought in 2019 he'd probably be battling it out with Nuguse and Engels. I didn't claim Kerr and Wightman were inferior to Hocker, just that they are not on a different level than him. They were obviously inferior athletes at ages 19-20...I don't think anyone would argue with that. The PBs are misleading at this time (they are not 6 and 4 seconds better than him), but I don't believe that matters.

Colby Alexander can run 3:33. It was a great race for him. We are seeing that a host of Americans can run quite fast in time trials. The B team can all run 3:33-3:34. It just further shows that having a fast PB is overrated in a time trial race, and PBs/SBs can be misleading.

**overrated in a championship race.

Yes you obtuse posters we understand Hocker's literal PB is 3:35 for the 1,000th time.

THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:

The Original Rastus wrote:

Also, guys in Doha closed in 53-54 off a pace that was 8 seconds faster going into the final lap than what Hocker had with a lap to go in the trials. And he didn't just blow by Centro either, he had to fight his way past him over the last 70 meters and he was straining to do it.

Incorrect. They closed in 53 high-54 low off of 2:37-2:38. Hocker went through in a smidge under 2:43. So they went through about 5 seconds faster tops. He ran 12.2 for the last 100 that speaks for itself ~ the strain is how Hocker runs. Centro was closing at a high level as well, which is why he didn't blow by Centro.

More correct that you were. In Doha, Chariot went by 1100 in 2:34, the leaders of the chase pack in 2:36...so a 7 second difference...nice try putting a range in there and taking the high end of it.

Some of you seem to never have heard of lactate threshold and Vo2 max. A 12.2 kick is meaningless when you've been jogging 1100 meters of the race. Try it on the last lap when you have hit 1:51 at the 800.

I'm calling a moratorium on this. They're the ones who have to prove to me how good you think you they are.

If you believe that then why are you using it as proof? You said Hocker is faster than a 3:33 that was run in an overrated time trial.

And I've only used Worlds as a barometer...that was no time trial.

The Original Rastus wrote:

More correct that you were. In Doha, Chariot went by 1100 in 2:34, the leaders of the chase pack in 2:36...so a 7 second difference...nice try putting a range in there and taking the high end of it.

Some of you seem to never have heard of lactate threshold and Vo2 max. A 12.2 kick is meaningless when you've been jogging 1100 meters of the race. Try it on the last lap when you have hit 1:51 at the 800.

I'm calling a moratorium on this. They're the ones who have to prove to me how good you think you they are.

Here is the data. You are wrong like you are on most things. One guy was technically under 2:37 and it was Makhloufi at 2:36.97 (then a 54.4 final lap). Hocker went through in 2:42.9. So at most it is a 6 second difference but closer to 5.5 for most.

In Doha, the fastest in the chase pack went through in 1:53.78. For you, I give you the quote:

"Better to Remain Silent and Be Thought a Fool than to Speak and Remove All Doubt"

High hopes wrote:

the macdaddy og wrote:

He has absolutely proven it - you just won’t open your eyes.

We have two runners….

Runner A runs 72, 70, 70, 72 for a 4:44 mile.

Runner B runs 75, 75, 75, 60 for a 4:45 mile.

If these runners were to face off tomorrow, who are you betting on?

Obviously runner B is capable of much more than runner A at this time.

Similar to Hocker… anyone who closes in 52/25 to finish in 3:35 (after rounds) is in significantly better shape than someone running an even paced 3:33.

He's proven it? Someone should tell World Athletics to update his stats because it's still saying on his profile he's only run 3:35.

Or... maybe what you have there is an opinion rather than proof

It’s not an opinion - it’s what decades of the sport has demonstrated to us. Heck, it’s what most junior high coaches teach you on day #1 of practice 😂

So… Which runner would win in a race tomorrow - runner A or runner B?

Back to the original topic…Colby’s time is the 7th fastest time EVER RUN on US soil. Only 6 tenths from the fastest. Only 5 Americans ahead of him, and only by tenths,. They are Jager, Ryun, Centro, and Engels (by 1/100). Lagat ran 3:32.94 but may have been running for Kenya then.

Whether Colby is this or that or the other remains your opinion…what is fact is, he just nailed a great race.

koyPond wrote:

THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:

And people on this board will tell you that the US is weak at the 1500m lol and Hocker is a 3:35 guy

The US is weak compared to the other top countries. Results don’t lie. Has Hocker run under 3:35? No? So then he’s a 3:35 guy.

An athlete who wins a championship race + rounds in 3:35; that athlete is probably capable of 3:32 -or better. To make global championship teams you have to be a 1500/5K type strong enough run several hard races in a week or and/or an 800/1500 type capable of executing a short foot race to finish line. No disrespect to what Colby did, but a 3:33 time trail does not compare to 3:35 race.

underdog. wrote:

Back to the original topic…Colby’s time is the 7th fastest time EVER RUN on US soil. Only 6 tenths from the fastest. Only 5 Americans ahead of him, and only by tenths,. They are Jager, Ryun, Centro, and Engels (by 1/100). Lagat ran 3:32.94 but may have been running for Kenya then.

Whether Colby is this or that or the other remains your opinion…what is fact is, he just nailed a great race.

He did, and the way he held on is impressive. Even with a pacer, going out slightly faster than goal pace for the first 600+ isn't easy to just hold onto without any major slippage (like a 29-30 second 200 in there).

Alexander, Colby Empire Elite 3:33.65

42.141 (42.141) 1:38.786 (56.645) 2:36.361 (57.576) 3:33.650 (57.289)

the macdaddy og wrote:

High hopes wrote:

He's proven it? Someone should tell World Athletics to update his stats because it's still saying on his profile he's only run 3:35.

Or... maybe what you have there is an opinion rather than proof

It’s not an opinion - it’s what decades of the sport has demonstrated to us. Heck, it’s what most junior high coaches teach you on day #1 of practice 😂

So… Which runner would win in a race tomorrow - runner A or runner B?

Yeah, mate. Now what you have is an opinion and a straw man. Setting up a hypothetical that perfectly confirms with your priors is not proof

You’re being a blithering idiot and incredibly obtuse. Hocker is obviously capable of much faster than 3:35. My junior year of high school I ran three races of 4:32, 4:30 and 4:30, all in tactical duel meets or small invitationals. I closed in sub 62 each of those races, the fastest being 58 in the first 4:30. Heading into the final meet of the season with my PR still being 4:30, I was looking to run a fast time. I told my coach I was shooting for sub 4:20 because I knew I was that fit. He told me to shoot for a more realistic goal and suggested I just run to break 4:30. I ran 4:18.8 that day with pretty much even splits (got 2nd, out kicked by my cross town rival, a senior who won in 4:17.3). Granted, I probably peaked perfectly and had about a good a race as one could ask for, but the point stands when I actually raced for time and not just winning, my true fitness was revealed.

So yeah, I’d say hockey should be good for ~3-5 seconds faster than 3:35 if he runs a time trial like race.

Here is the thing- you cannot say “Hocker is a 3:32 guy” because he technically hasn’t run it.

However, you shouldn’t get an argument from any knowledgeable fan if you said “Hocker is probably in 3:32 shape based on back to back massive negative split 3:35s in championship races.”

If people fight you on that, know that they probably have an Android and keep it moving.

I’ve given up dealing with these people and am just excited to see another young American stud.

OK, I'm *officially* in with the AspergeTrolls on this one!

So...Is Hocker the first 3:50i miler to be unable to break 3:35?

List of runners that have run less than 3:33 in the last 5 years and many of them were successful?

3:28.28 Timothy CHERUIYOT 09 JUL 2021

3:28.68 Jakob INGEBRIGTSEN 14 AUG 2020

3:28.76 Mohamed KATIR 09 JUL 2021

3:28.80 Elijah Motonei 21 JUL 2017

3:29.47 Jake WIGHTMAN 14 AUG 2020

3:29.51 Stewart MCSWEYN 09 JUL 2021

3:30.01 Filip INGEBRIGTSEN 20 JUL 2018

3:30.30 Charles Cheboi SIMOTWO 09 JUL 2021

3:30.42 Marcin LEWANDOWSKI 09 JUL 2021

3:30.58 Ronald MUSAGALA 12 JUL 2019

3:30.62 Charlie DA'VALL GRICE 12 JUL 2019

3:30.66 Ayanleh SOULEIMAN 24 AUG 2019

3:30.71 Samuel TEFERA 09 JUL 2021

3:30.89 Ronald KWEMOI 24 JUN 2017

3:31.38 Taoufik MAKHLOUFI 06 OCT 2019

3:31.45 Bethwell BIRGEN 24 AUG 2019

3:31.49 George Meitamei MANANGOI 12 JUL 2019

3:31.55 Josh KERR 03 JUN 2021

3:31.59 Abdelaati IGUIDER 30 AUG 2018

3:31.62 Brahim KAAZOUZI 20 JUL 2018

3:31.63 Aman WOTE 18 JUN 2017

3:31.74 Azeddine HABZ 09 JUL 2021

3:31.77 Matthew CENTROWITZ 20 JUL 2018

3:31.82 Melese NBERET 09 JUL 2021

3:31.90 Teddese LEMI 08 JUN 2021

3:31.95 Soufiane EL BAKKALI 28 MAY 2021

3:32.11 Chris O'HARE 20 JUL 2018

3:32.23 Silas KIPLAGAT 05 MAY 2017

3:32.41 Adam Ali MUSAB 14 FEB 2021

3:32.42 Baptiste MISCHLER 09 JUL 2021

3:32.49 Jakub HOLUŠA 20 JUL 2018

3:32.59 Yomif KEJELCHA 04 SEP 2018

3:32.66 Vincent KIBET 05 MAY 2017

3:32.68 Abel KIPSANG 09 JUN 2021

3:32.80 Samuel ZELEKE 08 JUN 2021

3:32.97 Justus SOGET 24 JUN 2017

3:32.97 Selemon BAREGA 25 SEP 2020

gasgasgas wrote:

OK, I'm *officially* in with the AspergeTrolls on this one!

So...Is Hocker the first 3:50i miler to be unable to break 3:35?

Nope. With sub-3:50i and a 3:35.00 1500 PR, Johnny Gregorek Jr. must be the G.O.A.T. in this department.

On this thread in general...at the NCAA meet, Hocker ran the first 700m at 3:48.2 pace, and the final 800 at 3:24.1 pace. Anyone unwilling to credit him with the potential to run much faster than his 3:35.35 winning time is unable to understand running.

gasgasgas wrote:

So...Is Hocker the first 3:50i miler to be unable to break 3:35?

No. That would be Eamonn Coghlan (3:49/3:36). Right now, that club also includes King Ches (3:49/3:36), Sam Prakel (3:50/3:36) and the indoor American Record holder, John Gregorek. Gregorek ran a 3:49i, but his 1500 PB is 3:35 flat -- in fact, he's only gone under 3:36 twice. And even though Ches ran 3:33i en route to his 3:49i, his next best time was 3:36.50.

Obviously, nobody expects Hocker (or Teare) to be stuck at 3:35 for ever. But there's plenty of examples to show that 3:50i doesn't automatically lead to fast 1500 times.

John Wesley Harding wrote:

Nope. With sub-3:50i and a 3:35.00 1500 PR, Johnny Gregorek Jr. must be the G.O.A.T. in this department.

Exactly! Gregorek, Jr. has to be the poster child for "running an otherworldly mile on a new indoor track with good pacing doesn't mean you are going to run unworldly 1500s later that year."

PS I didn't mean to ignore your excellent post the first time around. I got so caught up in checking (and then double checking) to see who else was in this club that I missed it completely.

It is more likely Cole Hocker could run 3:30 in the right race than it is that he has the tactical smarts to make it to the Olympic final. Hope he does though. And good for Colby! Maybe see him in Eugene next summer.