Do DI programs over-emphasize the important of weight lifting?

Mostly agreed. My D1 college coach was obsessed with pretty much everything except the running. If you were racing poorly, it was because your diet/lifting/recovery/sleep/school/anything was not ideal. Personally I felt like he was way too focused on this stuff compared to making sure people were at the right efforts/paces/distances for their runs and workouts. Of course the team was running horribly for the majority of this time, for a variety of reasons, so it's hard to pin down the blame on any one thing, but I can't but feel like 99% of our effort should have been focused on running... not all this other random gimmicky stuff.

Yes

You can do strength training in 15-30 minutes a session not 90.

25 pull-ups, 50 push-ups, and 5-10 Hill Sprints two times a week cover all the strength bases. All you need is a pull-up bar and a hill.

Having a cool weight room is just for recruiting purposes.

Yes, lifting has become the answer to everything, the latest fad. Give the S & C community credit, they have marketed their craft well.

Like gas, it will pass.

We lift 3x a week in the winter, 2x a week in the spring and fall and 1x a week in the championship season. Sessions aren't too long, usually 35-45 mins and definitely not max effort stuff, usually a combination of general strength exercices (like squats and deadlifts ...) with some more running specific technical exercices. I think this approach is ideal.

Lifting is to make your body stronger, more coordinated so you can run better and not get injured while doing more intense training.

Trucker Hat wrote:

Yes

You can do strength training in 15-30 minutes a session not 90.

25 pull-ups, 50 push-ups, and 5-10 Hill Sprints two times a week cover all the strength bases. All you need is a pull-up bar and a hill.

Having a cool weight room is just for recruiting purposes.

Disagree, you need to target the core, hips and lower body instead of the upper body. I'd replace pushups with burpees at least and add some hip raises and generic ab stuff instead of all that upper body work. Pull ups are good, but not many distance guys can do 25

Push-ups and pull-ups are as much core work anything else. A push-up is no different then a plank and a pull-up is no different then a leg raise when done with proper form.

25 pull-ups in sets like 5 x 5. Push-ups in sets like 5 x 10. Lots of ways to modify and make easier or harder.

These are functional movements that running does not address. Crunching is not a natural movement.

3x a week is too much

90min is waaaaay too much

Stop lifting like a bodybuilder.

Alan

Trucker Hat wrote:

Push-ups and pull-ups are as much core work anything else. A push-up is no different then a plank and a pull-up is no different then a leg raise when done with proper form.

25 pull-ups in sets like 5 x 5. Push-ups in sets like 5 x 10. Lots of ways to modify and make easier or harder.

These are functional movements that running does not address. Crunching is not a natural movement.

That's true, they do both work the core, but I still think that you need something to strengthen your hips, calves etc... Those parts of the body are stressed a lot while running and need to be strong and coordinated to stay healthy

Athletes should be given assessments then prescribed exercise to become more balanced and minimize the risk of injuries. 30 to 40 minutes 2 to 3 times a week should be enough for most.

skinniest guy in the gym wrote:

Trucker Hat wrote:

Push-ups and pull-ups are as much core work anything else. A push-up is no different then a plank and a pull-up is no different then a leg raise when done with proper form.

25 pull-ups in sets like 5 x 5. Push-ups in sets like 5 x 10. Lots of ways to modify and make easier or harder.

These are functional movements that running does not address. Crunching is not a natural movement.

That's true, they do both work the core, but I still think that you need something to strengthen your hips, calves etc... Those parts of the body are stressed a lot while running and need to be strong and coordinated to stay healthy

Yea, strengthen the calves, right, like by running more, try some hills. Specificity.

I'd say they just overcomplicate it like almost everyone else who lifts. Doesn't need to take that much time nor do they need as much variety. A basic hip hinge movement like a kettlebell swing or a deadlift, a pulling exercise like chin ups/pull ups, pushing movement ie dips or push ups and a few squats. Than when you do these compound movements you'll be hitting your core enough (so you won't have to spend extra time doing "core" work)and shouldn't take that much time to do a few good sets a few times a week.

rated over wrote:

skinniest guy in the gym wrote:

That's true, they do both work the core, but I still think that you need something to strengthen your hips, calves etc... Those parts of the body are stressed a lot while running and need to be strong and coordinated to stay healthy

Yea, strengthen the calves, right, like by running more, try some hills. Specificity.

Also stresses the achilles considerably so I'd rather do something that has less injury risk as strength.

Anyways what I've been doing has worked well for me. No injuries for a long time and PRs in every distance

There is this part of the riddle though. when rehabing my ankle, if i stuck to only running and various light weight exercises, jump

rope etc, i kept reinjuring it. the thing which finally brought me back up was weight lifting. starting very light. and very gradually bringing it up. to relatively heavy. the pool etc did not work. though the pool has its place and i have one of the best water aerobics workouts i have ever seen. hill running also did not work. for the time spent, and for the protective effect, by far, getting in some relatively heavy weight lifting was very effective. i have more interest in various sets from 3 to 30 reps. and little interest in 1 rep. it was obvious that primarily 4 to 16 reps sets brought the ankle back.

Some knowns based on science and research:

1. Strength training to build strength improves running economy and running performance.

2. In order to most effectively train muscular strength you must train up to 85% 1RM (4-6 rep max).

We all are free to argue #1 and #2 all day and we can back it up with research or experience and neither will move off his stance. That's fine.

So given #1 and #2 I will continue to promote a basic linear progression starting with general strength and moving towards more running specific applications of force using the improvements in strength gained.

IE: basic front squat, move toward 1/4 front squat, move toward single leg movements, etc over the course of 26 weeks

Alan

Runningart2004 wrote:

Some knowns based on science and research:

1. Strength training to build strength improves running economy and running performance.

2. In order to most effectively train muscular strength you must train up to 85% 1RM (4-6 rep max).

We all are free to argue #1 and #2 all day and we can back it up with research or experience and neither will move off his stance. That's fine.

So given #1 and #2 I will continue to promote a basic linear progression starting with general strength and moving towards more running specific applications of force using the improvements in strength gained.

IE: basic front squat, move toward 1/4 front squat, move toward single leg movements, etc over the course of 26 weeks

Alan

Why not start off with 1 legged movements from day 1 (albeit just body weight) since the neural demand is so high?

Runningart2004 wrote:

Some knowns based on science and research:

1. Strength training to build strength improves running economy and running performance.

2. In order to most effectively train muscular strength you must train up to 85% 1RM (4-6 rep max).

We all are free to argue #1 and #2 all day and we can back it up with research or experience and neither will move off his stance. That's fine.

So given #1 and #2 I will continue to promote a basic linear progression starting with general strength and moving towards more running specific applications of force using the improvements in strength gained.

IE: basic front squat, move toward 1/4 front squat, move toward single leg movements, etc over the course of 26 weeks

Alan

Thanks for all your advice on this forum Alan. At least pre-covid I got into a nice routine following your advice. (I have fallen off since, but hope to start back sometime soon)

When doing 4-6 reps at 85% 1rm how hard should the final rep be? How many reps should you be able to do at 85% 1rm?

Thanks

Freethethigh

coach wrote:

Why not start off with 1 legged movements from day 1 (albeit just body weight) since the neural demand is so high?

in a rehabilitation context. and likely in a new movement context. you are going to want to understand the difference in demand. for a lift done with both legs. and a lift done with one. many people skip directly from 2 legs to one. without doing the math. it is a big jump from two to one. a hop is way different than a jump. for example the difference of body weight on 2 legs vrs on one leg with variations of calf raises. what worked for me is to lift enough with 2 legs first so that it was above and beyond one leg body weight. before going onto just one leg. given that corrections for balance tend to be sprints with strength that might not be there yet. the zone between two legs and one leg if worth working through in steps and not just doing as one step. its a big progression. for example on the body weight calf raise you go from lifting 1/2 body weight on each "leg" when lifting with both at the same time to lifting the whole body weight on one "leg". thats not a smart progression. though it can help put into context a comparison of relatively light dumbbells added to one leg vrs a much heavier barbell for the similar movement with two legs.

If you look at it this way, and take it to the extreme, you should not run unless you have proper and equal strength, mobility, balance etc... in each leg.

I think the tree Eason would be that it is easier to rapidly load front squats., so you are going from basic strength to sport-specific strength (and balance)