Armstronglivs wrote:
stan the corgi wrote:
It's like saying anyone who runs over 100mpw will become a world class marathoner
Perhaps if he studies quantum physics 8 hours a day he could become Einstein, too.
Well given that Einstein didn't really do much with QM compared to his contributions in other areas, I say that his time would be mislaid there.
If you are able to practice 8 hours per day, you aren't practicing properly.
This is like thinking you're going to become a great runner by running 4 hours per day. You could only accomplish this by slowing your pace to a very easy jog. At that point, you'd be better off to train half as much at a higher level of intensity.
Same goes for music. The mental focus and physical effort necessary for optimal practice isn't sustainable for 8 hours per day. You're better off practicing better instead of longer.
stephen santiagoog wrote:
I am talking about practicing 8 hours a day and not one day off a week. How long would a newbie like me take to become good, very good and ultimately a concert pianist?
If I practice baseball pitching 8 hours a day, how long would it take for me to win a Cy Young award?
If I practice writing literature for 8 hours a day, how long would it take for me to win a Nobel Prize?
drbop wrote:
stephen santiagoog wrote:
I am talking about practicing 8 hours a day and not one day off a week. How long would a newbie like me take to become good, very good and ultimately a concert pianist?
If I practice baseball pitching 8 hours a day, how long would it take for me to win a Cy Young award?
If I practice writing literature for 8 hours a day, how long would it take for me to win a Nobel Prize?
I remember reading many years ago how to improve your writing by picking one of your favorite authors and just copy their sentences word for word . I thought Herman Melville was a brilliant writer and copied his writings. I am pretty sure it helped.
stephen santiagoog wrote:
I am talking about practicing 8 hours a day and not one day off a week. How long would a newbie like me take to become good, very good and ultimately a concert pianist?
I'd put the odds on never.
This is correct.
I've been running consistently since 2017 and only now am I able to hit 55-60 mpw without too much trouble. I started at 25-30 and worked my way up.
I play keyboards (not well) but it took years and a teacher to make me go from horrible to "not well."
Sometimes life comes down to talent and genetics, and hard work alone can only get you so far.
a long time ago wrote:
About the same time as it would take you to train to out kick cole hocker.
Does this mean Woody Kincaid is a virtuoso?
llort_vbo wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
Perhaps if he studies quantum physics 8 hours a day he could become Einstein, too.
Well given that Einstein didn't really do much with QM compared to his contributions in other areas, I say that his time would be mislaid there.
I'm not sure you would want to argue that it was only application that made Einstein a genius. If that is so, there are a lot of unacknowledged geniuses out there.
Armstronglivs wrote:
llort_vbo wrote:
Well given that Einstein didn't really do much with QM compared to his contributions in other areas, I say that his time would be mislaid there.
I'm not sure you would want to argue that it was only application that made Einstein a genius. If that is so, there are a lot of unacknowledged geniuses out there.
This is correct. Science and music are giant collaborative projects where most peoples talent and hard work goes unacknowledged in favour of a small number who happened to be in exactly the right place at the right time.
It's untrue that you can't reach the top on an instrument while self-taught. You just have to have access to the right information, like Julius Yego the youtube javelin master.
Bad Wigins wrote:
It's untrue that you can't reach the top on an instrument while self-taught. You just have to have access to the right information, like Julius Yego the youtube javelin master.
There has not been one self-taught classical virtuoso. Maybe jazz? Art Tatum?
stephen santiagoog wrote:
I am talking about practicing 8 hours a day and not one day off a week. How long would a newbie like me take to become good, very good and ultimately a concert pianist?
First you need a teacher, as playing piano requires a high skill factor.
Second, you have to ramp up your pratice time. You can not start with 8h, your fingers , tendons etc. can not handle that load.
You need at least 8 years to change your brain, to get more feeling in the finger .
And so on ...
hendrix was self taught. but. he studied other people very very closely. mimicking the songs of those he respected. by listeninging over and over to the recordings and learning the parts.
as someone who has practiced 8 hour days in music. not on piano. but on flute. i can tell you. for me. 4 hour days is not where the benefit maxes out. i did seasons of 8 hours days with a 5 hour morning practice and a 3 hour afternoon practice. and i did years of a 5 hour morning practice. when i was being serious i would go for at least 6 hours at least 6 days a week. i have in fact worn my fingers out. there are times you need to rest and recover. i found a 6 day week of practice with a 5 hour minimum very sustainable . after a few years building in. in about 2 years you get way better than where you started. oh yeah it does start closer to 20 min to 2 hours a day. in about 4 years you know there is still a long way to go, but in a lot of ways it is worth it. on trumpet i would start with something like 5 minutes 4 days a week and build up .( i thought i'd start around 2 hours a day on trumpet, but that took a while to work into) . each instrument is different. rudimental snare drumming 4 hours a day you can still suck in 6 months.
muso wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
I'm not sure you would want to argue that it was only application that made Einstein a genius. If that is so, there are a lot of unacknowledged geniuses out there.
This is correct. Science and music are giant collaborative projects where most peoples talent and hard work goes unacknowledged in favour of a small number who happened to be in exactly the right place at the right time.
Individual brilliance can still shine in collaborative efforts. Musicians know this. I would think scientists do, as well.
No, you don't have a clue about Einstein's work. In Einstein's case, his Magnus opus was a solo project and took about 10 years of hard work. Almost exclusively on his own.
I was a subelite concert pianist earlier in life. Practice for me was about 3 hours per day serious practice and 2-3 hours per day in rehersals or practicing other instruments. I was slightly talented but not exceptionally gifted naturally. Took around 10 years from age 8 to age 18 to reach subelite and the point of being able to perform a solo program that wasn't blatantly disrespectful to the composers. The first few years were on the lower end and didn't take it seriously into around 12-13.
to have a chance at progressing beyond that I would have had to practice much, much more often. I estimate it would have taken another 6+ hours serious practice per day 7 days a week for another 5 years to eek into the lower end of actual elite.
I have family members who reached that level on other instruments from 5-6 hours serious practice starting age 7-8 through the teen years (and always include another 10-20 hours a week for group rehersals and then any time playing pop music or noodling on top of that). Starting at that age with that focus allowed them to reach elite status considerably faster than an adult. They were able to give serious conerts by late teens in this way.
To reach subelite status as an adult, there is no reason you can't do it. It's not gymnastics or the 100m dash. You can start age 30-40 and become subelite with enough time committment. It's even possible to become elite, although unlikely and probably requires some baseline talent. Requires serious practice for several hours per day. The group performance hours are also not optional.
They are an essential part of developing as a musician. It's a different skillset and training, but absolutely required to perform solo AND in group settings to develop as a musician. Without that is like calling yourself a runner without racing.
portsea57 wrote:
Bad Wigins wrote:
It's untrue that you can't reach the top on an instrument while self-taught. You just have to have access to the right information, like Julius Yego the youtube javelin master.
There has not been one self-taught classical virtuoso. Maybe jazz? Art Tatum?
Then nobody made the right youtube videos.
caterpilla wrote:
hendrix was self taught. but. he studied other people very very closely. mimicking the songs of those he respected. by listeninging over and over to the recordings and learning the parts.
as someone who has practiced 8 hour days in music. not on piano. but on flute. i can tell you. for me. 4 hour days is not where the benefit maxes out. i did seasons of 8 hours days with a 5 hour morning practice and a 3 hour afternoon practice. and i did years of a 5 hour morning practice. when i was being serious i would go for at least 6 hours at least 6 days a week. i have in fact worn my fingers out. there are times you need to rest and recover. i found a 6 day week of practice with a 5 hour minimum very sustainable . after a few years building in. in about 2 years you get way better than where you started. oh yeah it does start closer to 20 min to 2 hours a day. in about 4 years you know there is still a long way to go, but in a lot of ways it is worth it. on trumpet i would start with something like 5 minutes 4 days a week and build up .( i thought i'd start around 2 hours a day on trumpet, but that took a while to work into) . each instrument is different. rudimental snare drumming 4 hours a day you can still suck in 6 months.
Were you the flutist in Jethro Tull?
llort_vbo wrote:
No, you don't have a clue about Einstein's work. In Einstein's case, his Magnus opus was a solo project and took about 10 years of hard work. Almost exclusively on his own.
He collaborated.
https://www.nature.com/articles/527298aPlus his work, like any science and art, builds on what countless others have done before.