ClaytonHammer wrote:
I just don't understand the rationale behind not taking a phone with you, especially on days with inclement weather, rough terrain, etc. It could save your life, or help you to save another.
Because having a phone is annoying when running when you consider the thousands of miles run compared to the risk of needing a phone. Shorts, socks and shoes only.
106 in California is way nicer than 85 in the south. Yes, not pleasant, but in my double days, i did this all the time. once you get out there and find a shaded trail and start sweating you adapt.
5 days a week I run by myself. I used to run with a phone when I was a working professional and my clients expected me to be accessible to them. Now I'm a 70 year old retiree and I run with my phone with a one button 911 app on it. the risk of needing a phone can be very different for each individual depending on circumstances.
It was 106 out? Guess we don't have to think too hard. This guy is toast.
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Many years ago I started a day hike in Yosemite Valley. We were asked to look for signs of a guy who went running in the Valley area. Particularly running-stride length footprints. He had been missing since the night before. His car was in the lot. He vanished. They started looking for him his roommates said he left a note where he was going and that he would be back before dinner.
My hike took me up to the top of Yosemite Falls and further up to Sierra Point. There were no signs that anyone who took that trail ran.
I checked in with the rangers later, no sign at all of the guy. I showed them some pictures of the prints on trail up high; no runner types. I asked the ranger if they thought the guy was still lost. He said no, because no one had seen any recent runner type strides on the lower trails. He said that the guy probably did not want to be found ... "We get those types here often. Sometimes we find them, many times we don't." He meant a body of someone who decide a nice trail area would be a good final stop to life.
joed|rt wrote:
It was 106 out? Guess we don't have to think too hard. This guy is toast.
No body. No toast. One final run.
Is that true? Given that hundreds of people finish Badwater each year (135 miles in 100F+ temps, with 15000ft of climbing), I don't think a highly experienced ultrarunner would struggle terribly doing 8 miles even in those temps. I'm not exactly an ultrarunner (more of a 5k guy) and I've run 6-7 miles in 98F out in the blistering sun. It sucked, but I don't think this run would be that difficult for him.
I seriously hope he's okay,
ClaytonHammer wrote:
Is that true? Given that hundreds of people finish Badwater each year (135 miles in 100F+ temps, with 15000ft of climbing), I don't think a highly experienced ultrarunner would struggle terribly doing 8 miles even in those temps. I'm not exactly an ultrarunner (more of a 5k guy) and I've run 6-7 miles in 98F out in the blistering sun. It sucked, but I don't think this run would be that difficult for him.
I seriously hope he's okay,
There are not hundreds of people finish Badwater each year but the ones who do have a support crew.
All I'm saying is this guy is not "toast" because he tried to do 8 miles in 105F temps. For an experienced mountain ultramarathoner in CA, that doesn't seem like a particularly challenging run, unless he went in incredibly dehydrated/hungover/hungry to begin with.
And if things did get so catastrophic, I'm not sure how he'd be able to wander out of the park and not be noticed somewhere nearby given the park is surrounded by highways and neighborhoods. This just doesn't make sense - the trail is heavily trafficked, they checked within 100m of the trail to see if he had slipped and fallen off somewhere, there's absolutely no trace of this guy.
I really hope he's okay.
I was in Scottsdale two years ago and it was 106 during the middle of the day (about the same conditions as this guy was in only likely with a lower dewpoint). I got up early and ran up Camelback from the resort I was at when it was in the 80s or 90s with a much lower dewpoint than what this guy was running in and without the sun directly overhead. I filled up my water bottle with ice water before I left, refilled it at the trailhead and filled it again on the way back. I had 96 ounces of water and at the end of my run I still felt like I might have a stroke. Considering it was likely 20 degrees hotter than he was used to running in, there was no need for the guy to be a hero and run at 11 AM. Ultra runners are a little nuts subjecting themselves to such adverse conditions, likely with inadequate hydration. Guy is likely dead and his two kids will grow up without him. It's a sad story, but one that was likely entirely preventable.
106 wrote:
Running in 106 degree temperatures. That just sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.
I can't believe people even consider running in such heat.
Yeah this is a hugely overlooked/under-considered thing. I read a great article from The Best American Sportswriting 2019 on the very topic of heat exhaustion and how quick the onset can be and how destructive and potentially dangerous it is. I think a lot of runners and especially trail/longer distance oriented runners believe that because of their fitness levels, they are slightly more immune to the effects of heat which isn't the case.
I'm not in the shape I once was but can still run a 10km in 37-38min and I have even found the difference running in 70 degrees to 85 degrees to be far more greater than I ever remembered - and that's even on just an hour in trails not hammering it. So I can't even imagine running in anything close to 100. As you said, that's a disaster waiting to happen and sadly looks like it did happen :/
joed|rt wrote:
I was in Scottsdale two years ago and it was 106 during the middle of the day (about the same conditions as this guy was in only likely with a lower dewpoint). I got up early and ran up Camelback from the resort I was at when it was in the 80s or 90s with a much lower dewpoint than what this guy was running in and without the sun directly overhead. I filled up my water bottle with ice water before I left, refilled it at the trailhead and filled it again on the way back. I had 96 ounces of water and at the end of my run I still felt like I might have a stroke. Considering it was likely 20 degrees hotter than he was used to running in, there was no need for the guy to be a hero and run at 11 AM. Ultra runners are a little nuts subjecting themselves to such adverse conditions, likely with inadequate hydration. Guy is likely dead and his two kids will grow up without him. It's a sad story, but one that was likely entirely preventable.
Great reply, thanks. The only thing that doesn't make sense is... where is he?? He didn't pass out on the trail. He wasn't found within 100m of the trail, and nearly the entire park has been combed over. The park is surrounded by roads, neighborhoods, and highways and he wasn't anywhere to be seen. Searchers have apparently found watches and othertiny lost items but not a trace of this guy.
I've done 7 miles in 97F at 2PM in the open sun. I did hydrate a lot beforehand, drank water every 1.5 miles or. It sucked. I'm not an ultrarunner by any means, but I didn't feel like I came close to death that day. Since then, however, I limit my outside running to 90F and ideally when the sun is not blistering.
And I totally agree with a lot of ultrarunners being totally reckless. I remember a guy boasting about being hospitalized for kidney failure after a race. Same thing with the 20 runners who perished in the freak storm in China. What's the point??
ClaytonHammer wrote:
And if things did get so catastrophic, I'm not sure how he'd be able to wander out of the park and not be noticed somewhere nearby given the park is surrounded by highways and neighborhoods. This just doesn't make sense - the trail is heavily trafficked, they checked within 100m of the trail to see if he had slipped and fallen off somewhere, there's absolutely no trace of this guy.
I really hope he's okay.
I think the problem is they know where he started but not 100% where he went. If things did get catastrophic to me that means he could have misjudged a tight bend or quality of a path and slipped and gone off it. From here we really don't know - could have whacked his head on a sharp rock and that's it. As for not finding him - it's again one of those things where sometimes people end up in the worst possible place imaginable and that might have happened here.
I hope he's fine too because this is so sad, but it appears he isn't. Another lesson of how precious life is and how we should never take anything for granted.
This is one of the more obvious cases of someone running away from problems. Guy is for sure gone to a another state or country to start a new life.
All the evidence obviously points to this.
Several possibilities.
1) Cougar - very unlikely. Cougar attacks are rare in general, and even more rare for one to attack an adult man.
2) Faked his own death - Again, unlikely, but people have done it. No way for any of us to know.
3) Murdered - unlikely, and probably kind of hard to execute without detection is sounds like? Also, what would be a motive? Seems pretty unlikely.
4) Guy either got heat stroke or hit his head and ended up buried under brush, low spot, or some other area that is pretty much out of sight. If he did indeed die, and it was hot out, his body would likely become identical to surrounding temps pretty quickly I would think.
None of the options are likely, but then that would make sense for someone disappearing in such an area. Very low probability event. Obviously hope he's okay and wish his friends and family the best. Tragic no matter what.
I'm not taking a phone on a road run but any trails I do take it in a belt. Too many variables on the trails. If I was doing more remote trails I'd have an InReach for sure.
A lot of ultra runners and even mountain bikers I know will intentionally go off trail like they are training for the Barkley Marathons or some other invention from some guys head. It happens more often than you think, and many times it's doctors and the like taking these totally unnecessary risks.
https://denver.cbslocal.com/2011/07/04/gortler-coroner-hikers-died-michael-makana/
They apparently searched the area 100m on both sides of the trail with a fine tooth comb, thinking the most likely outcome was he slipped or fell off the trail. They even found a small rock with some blood on it (testing showed it to be animal blood) and found lots of other small misc things like lost watches - I doubt they'd miss him. That's the biggest unknown in all of this - where the heck could he be?? Hundreds of people have been searching for 5 days now. They've searched all the likely areas and something like 90%+ of the entire park, many areas multiple times.
The area has some wildlife, primarily rattlesnakes, mountain lions, bobcats, and coyotes. Of those, only a mountain lion would be responsible for moving him off the trail...
He could have just been in the wrong place at the wrong time and gotten shot by someone who was carrying. Maybe he got into an argument with someone or stumbled onto an argument and tried to get involved.
Similarly, there were and have been marijuana grow operations in the East Bay hills, and those guys are sometimes armed, so everyone knows to stay away from them. Here's the first google hit, but I've heard of many such instances over the years:
https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/09/25/illegal-marijuana-grow-removed-from-east-bay-regional-park/
So maybe he decided to go off-trail a bit and stumbled onto something he didn't know was there.